not greeting people on 9 av

MitzadSheini

Tue, Aug 16 2016, 6:35 am

I know it's a bit late for this year but I was just curious about the thing of not greeting people on 9 Av. Now I know it comes from aveilus but the thing is with aveilus you are supposed to let the avel talk first so if you carry this through we are all in aveilus so no one can talk to anyone. Or alternatively EVERY ONE can start speaking.......

Now this year I actually saw virtually no non family members on 9 Av so I had no one to not greet. But in the past I know I have either said "not hello", or just launched into the conversation.

We see in another thread though that lack of greeting often causes interpersonal problems of people thinking that other people are offended about something and so on. I have often thought that the custom of not greeting people is exactly the wrong thing for discouraging's sinat chinam. But obviously the rabbis knew more than me so-

***what were they thinking *** when they instituted this custom?minhag?halacha?

water_bear88

Tue, Aug 16 2016, 6:40 am

Maybe it would be helpful if there were a reminder of this custom put out. I saw reviews of all the major customs of Tisha B'Av- why not include this one, maybe more prominently?

Tue, Aug 16 2016, 7:15 am

This is from a synagogue website, including the source:

"It is customary not to greet another person on Tisha B’Av. If one is greeted by someone, he should respond with a low voice, at the same time being careful not to embarrass the greeter (Shulchan Aruch OC 554:20)."

I thought this custom was well-known, but at some shuls I have heard plenty of chit-chat while others are very quiet, so practices seem to vary somewhat.

Most everyone goes to hear Eicha, so this custom keeps a solemn tone in the gathering which otherwise might easily become a social frenzy.

imasinger

Tue, Aug 16 2016, 9:17 am

MitzadSheini wrote:

But in the past I know I have either said "not hello", or just launched into the conversation.

"Not hello" -- that's a perfect response! It honors the minhag while not putting down the greeter.

I also find this practice troubling. If it comes up (and I usually just hide at home), I give a sad smile, and a nod, and move on. But deep inside, I wish the halacha were to davka greet people so as to add to ahavas yisrael.

I wonder if in the time of Chazal, you would have seen everyone yesterday, so less of an impulse to greet and ask "how are you."

I also wonder how much all of this was thought of with women in mind.

Tue, Aug 16 2016, 9:45 am

MitzadSheini wrote:

I don't have a source in front of me but I am quite sure that one does not say "hello" or "shalom" to a mourner, and they do not use such greetings either (separate from the practice of allowing the mourner to speak first).

When we are all in mourning together and no one says "hello" it becomes more difficult to distract ourselves from the meaning of the day with irrelevant small talk. Personally, I find it adds to the observance of Tisha B'Av, although it can be a little awkward if different people hold to different customs.

greenfire

Tue, Aug 16 2016, 10:54 am

so it's a good question as to why would it be okay to hurt one's feelings and not respond ... to keeping a mourner's custom of this 'not hello' ideation

isn't it said that is why j#sus left the fold because his rebbie didn't answer aka 'ignored' him while davening shemona esrai ...

the way I stay away from idle chatter is by not being around people ... keep myself busy with davening, reading, and/or sleeping

glamourmom

Tue, Aug 16 2016, 10:59 am

I remember learning that you shouldn't give a cheerful "good morning" or " HI, how are you?" BUT if you know someone wont take your non-greeting the right way or that you may hurt them, then definitely greet them just not uber excitedly.

greenfire

Tue, Aug 16 2016, 11:09 am

honestly - do we have to wear a t-shirt that says: "get the F away from me I'm fasting" ... people are b!tchy when they fast and moreso without coffee

[just a different take Twisted Evil

]

water_bear88

Tue, Aug 16 2016, 11:34 am

I'm not saying it's preferable to give a cold look or a cold shoulder- just that there's room to be DLKZ here. So that OP didn't review the minhagim before the fast, presumably because she's busy with life, and maybe her friend didn't either for the same reason. OP forgot about the minhag and her friend misremembered it, was put on the spot and acted wrongly. Both positions are understandable, and the bottom line is that it's a silly thing to ruin a friendship over (especially, as Greenfire said, when people are fasting and not at their best).