Vaccine-Free School?

FranticFrummie

Wed, Aug 17 2016, 12:41 pm

This is totally sincere, and 100% unsnarky. I'm genuinely interested in this idea. I vaccinate, so I don't have a personal interest, but I'm curious how this would play out.

For all of you who feel so strongly against vaccination (and it seems to be a LOT of frum people), why don't the rabbonim open a vaccine free school, where all the non vaxxed kids can go? Get the Peach people involved, raise some funds, and get it going?

If the vaccine issue is a life or death decision for you and your kids, it shouldn't be hard to create an educational system for your kids.

You could do what most Jewish schools do when they start out - rent an abandoned church, and use the basement classrooms. If the first year or two goes well, then start fundraising for your own building, or to buy the church and completely remodel it.

octopus

Wed, Aug 17 2016, 1:11 pm

I would think that would run into legal issues within the USA. Would that be allowable in a completely subsidized program? That would be question #1. The minute a school takes money from gov't (be it lunch program, title 1, upk, daycare, headstart, funding for labs etc,) you have to follow THEIR rules. So is a school completely sustainable without gov't funding?

FranticFrummie

Wed, Aug 17 2016, 1:17 pm

octopus wrote:

That's the thing, it would have to be 100% privately funded. If the rabbonim feel so strongly about this, they should put their money where their mouth is, and use their power to come up with the financing. If this is a life or death situation regarding vaccines, then why aren't they more concerned about education?

You can't say "Don't vaccinate your kids" in a frum magazine, and then not provide them any way of getting into a Jewish school, right?

amother

Ecru

Wed, Aug 17 2016, 2:51 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

WOW. Which rabbeim or magazines are saying not to vaccinate your kids???

amother

Violet

Wed, Aug 17 2016, 2:56 pm

Well, where would you draw the line? There would have to be vaccine free supermarkets, vaccine free blocks...why isn't there a clerk at the entrance to every place checking vaccine records?

This is not a Jewish issue. There are just as many if not more non Jews that may choose not to vaccinate

Amarante

Wed, Aug 17 2016, 3:04 pm

amother wrote:

I would suspect statistically more frum vaccinate although it might not appear to be from a specific forum.

Not vaccinating is outside the mainstream of every Jewish group.

I would bet given the zip codes that don't vaccinate that incidence is highest among secular Jews although I personally don't know any secular Jews whi don't vaccinate either.

What mischief that English doctor did. 😱

The only person I know who doesn't evacuate is a Facebook acquaintance from my teens who regularly posts all kinds of mishegas. I wish I could unfriendly or just not get updates from her but I don't know how without letting her know.

pesek zman

Wed, Aug 17 2016, 3:08 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

You really think a lot of frum people don't vaccinate? I don't even know one person.

I work at a major NYC children's hospital. There are pockets of chassidim (primarily in Monsey/new square/kirjas Joel) who don't vaccinate.

flowerpower

Wed, Aug 17 2016, 3:37 pm

pesek zman wrote:

I work at a major NYC children's hospital. There are pockets of chassidim (primarily in Monsey/new square/kirjas Joel) who don't vaccinate.

They are all part of the same horrible cult. It is terrible. They try to convince others they meet to so the same.

LittleDucky

Wed, Aug 17 2016, 3:51 pm

Totally agree. We should have two separate schools so that way the vaccinated kids won't "shed" or contaminate the air with vaccines. Or maybe I just want my kids to not come home with measles or some other disease. Or carry it home on their clothes and infect my infant, immunocompromised friends and elderly relatives.

The reason it differs from stores is that you aren't spending 8-10 hours a day for 10 months sitting next to the same people.

If you don't trust other parents in terms of vaccinating and health issues (which anti-vax people are concerned will harm their unvaxxed kids) how can you be sure the families don't secretly belong to a pork eaters society? Maybe they can influence your kids too!

mommy3b2c

Wed, Aug 17 2016, 3:57 pm

pesek zman wrote:

I work at a major NYC children's hospital. There are pockets of chassidim (primarily in Monsey/new square/kirjas Joel) who don't vaccinate.

Well they are just pockets. It is not at all a mainstream frum view.

amother

Ecru

Wed, Aug 17 2016, 4:00 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Hi, you're new here, aren't you?

Search keywords like "vaccination" and "Peach". You'll be in for an interesting time.

I'm totally NOT new here, but I didn't realize it was more than some crazy, fringe iPhone-smashing-type rabbis that were rabidly anti-vax.

amother

Violet

Wed, Aug 17 2016, 4:32 pm

LittleDucky wrote:

There was a measles outbreak in Disneyland. That is an open public place. It obviously doesn't take 8-10 hours sitting in the same room as someone to spread a disease. Why don't they scan vaccine records in airports? Imagine sitting on a plane for 8-10 hours next to an unvaccinated person. Maybe you have done it and don't even know it.

Mama Bear

Wed, Aug 17 2016, 10:24 pm

There are no rabbonim who are anti-vax. I think it's quite the opposite.
Yes, the anti-vaxxing cult is virulent. I just had a major explosive argument last night here in the bungalow colony where I threw a chair, stomped off in a fit, and started crying, bc the chief anti-vaxxer in the circle dared mention the word autism in the same sentence as vaccines. On the same day that I went to tour a facility to possibly place my autistic son in. I cannot be around anti-vaxxers in this state of mind.
I cannot stand anti-vaxxers who try to force their beliefs on everyone and think the ones who do vaccinate are the ones harming their children!!!
Gahhhhh.

NovelConcept

Wed, Aug 17 2016, 10:35 pm

I'm not anti-vax or positively pro-vax. I think everything has to do be done with wisdom, according to the child at hand.

Chicken pox vax? Why give it? Flu vax also, in my opinion. Buy POLIO? Yes! Give it! And think (don't say) Shecheyanu! BH we have vaccines to help us overcome horrible diseases that used to maim and kill.

I have kids with really bad allergies, and have them myself as well, and my son had a rare disease. Anti-vaxers could have said these were caused by vaccines, but really, who cares? I did my part, and if this is what happened, I feel that the risk of allergies is much less than the risk that comes with polio and the sort.

Yes, I pray we'll never have to use the epi-pen, and worry about my kids' allergies, but at least the big scary bugs of the past don't haunt me.

And who knows? If I had skipped the vaccines, can we really guarantee my kids would have been allergy free? I don't think so.

The human body is so complex! Who knows what causes what! I think it is wrong to make parents and doctors feel guilty for "maybe" causing autism, allergies, etc. with vaccines.

I think that PEACHers are causing more trouble than good, by entering well-meaning parents minds and confusing them. Everyone wants to do the right thing for their kids. But maybe, just maybe... Vaccines ARE the right things at this point in life???

ally

Wed, Aug 17 2016, 11:45 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

I am so sorry you had to deal with that. I wish you peace.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Aug 17 2016, 11:48 pm

ally wrote:

I am so sorry you had to deal with that. I wish you peace.

Same here. What a horrible experience to have on your vacation, and no way to escape from this person! Hug

I've always thought that you are a wonderful mother. Don't let their ignorance get to you.