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Swimming on Shabbos?? I never knew....
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Volunteer




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 22 2016, 7:25 pm
Iymnok wrote:
An umbrella is ohel.


Well, sort of. It could also just as easily be regarded as a hand held utensil whose function is to open and collapse.
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 1:38 am
Volunteer wrote:
Well, sort of. It could also just as easily be regarded as a hand held utensil whose function is to open and collapse.

the point of which is to create a separate and protected space = ohel.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 2:17 am
Marion wrote:
Actually, the reason I was given for not riding a bike is that if the chain breaks (or falls off) the bike becomes muktze and you're stuck. Which is why a tricycle (which has no chain) IS permitted...

This is what I learned too.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 11:15 am
debsey wrote:
...

It all goes by which rule applies at which time. If you know the rule, great. If not, you ask a rabbi!


or by which minhag which rabbi agrees to ... so it's all a matter of opinion of customs

some people don't open food on shabbos - others say just don't rip the letters ... and still others just eat without a second thought about it
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 11:45 am
greenfire wrote:
or by which minhag which rabbi agrees to ... so it's all a matter of opinion of customs

some people don't open food on shabbos - others say just don't rip the letters ... and still others just eat without a second thought about it

These things are not minhag. They are different interpretations/applications of halacha.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 1:07 pm
gp2.0 wrote:
I suspect the biggest issues are that it's not in the "spirit" of Shabbos, and that not enough people do it.

Setting up timers before Shabbos to turn on and shut off the lights is just as problematic as setting up the TV with a timer before Shabbos. But because most people use timers for lights during Shabbos and its common knowledge that people do so, it's become acceptable, while using the TV on a timer has not.

I suspect the same applies for men toiveling in the pool vs. men or women just lounging in the pool. One has become accepted practice, the other has not.

As usual, there is room for interpretation. AIUI, the rishonim and achronim couldn't agree about this either.


so what makes one right and one wrong ... minhagim
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amother
Lime


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 8:23 pm
Quote:
A woman is only allowed to toivel on Shabbos if it is the precisely correct day for her to do so. If she has pushed off a ht or mikvah, or if she is after birth, she cannot toivel on Shabbos.
Are you sure about this? I know if you could have gone Friday night but did not, you can't go Motzai Shabbos (I think, though I could be wrong, because it's preferable to be preparing before nightfall which obviously you can't do for Motzai Shabbos). But if you could have made a hefsek on Friday & you didn't make it until Shabbos, you can go Motzai Shabbos.

Anyhow, what's called pushing off a hefsek? You could think you saw too much spotting on Thursday so it's not worth trying, you could be busy doing something & miss shkiah.
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cnc




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2016, 8:47 pm
amother wrote:
Quote:
A woman is only allowed to toivel on Shabbos if it is the precisely correct day for her to do so. If she has pushed off a ht or mikvah, or if she is after birth, she cannot toivel on Shabbos.
Are you sure about this? I know if you could have gone Friday night but did not, you can't go Motzai Shabbos (I think, though I could be wrong, because it's preferable to be preparing before nightfall which obviously you can't do for Motzai Shabbos). But if you could have made a hefsek on Friday & you didn't make it until Shabbos, you can go Motzai Shabbos.

Anyhow, what's called pushing off a hefsek? You could think you saw too much spotting on Thursday so it's not worth trying, you could be busy doing something & miss shkiah.


I would assume she means that Thursday is not convenient for her to go to the mikvah so she purposely pushes off the hefsek to the next day.
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amother
Violet


 

Post Wed, Aug 24 2016, 8:40 am
amother wrote:
Quote:
A woman is only allowed to toivel on Shabbos if it is the precisely correct day for her to do so. If she has pushed off a ht or mikvah, or if she is after birth, she cannot toivel on Shabbos.
Are you sure about this? I know if you could have gone Friday night but did not, you can't go Motzai Shabbos (I think, though I could be wrong, because it's preferable to be preparing before nightfall which obviously you can't do for Motzai Shabbos). But if you could have made a hefsek on Friday & you didn't make it until Shabbos, you can go Motzai Shabbos.

Anyhow, what's called pushing off a hefsek? You could think you saw too much spotting on Thursday so it's not worth trying, you could be busy doing something & miss shkiah.


I've never heard this, about not being able to go motzai Shabbos if you push it off. In fact, I heard from a mikvah lady that a local chashuve rebbetzin was impressed with how many women make the effort to go Fri. night despite the tirchos.
Women who go motzai Shabbos are supposed to so some prep on erev Shabbos.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 24 2016, 2:12 pm
greenfire wrote:
so what makes one right and one wrong ... minhagim


I think you're misconstruing the difference between a halacha and a minhag. It's easy to dismiss a psak you don't like as being related to a meaningless custom, and have the thinking "just because my bubby in Europe did this, doesn't mean I have to." vs. halacha, which is actual law and is a requirement of Jewish Orthodoxy.

It is true that different communities interpret those laws differently sometimes, but once the law has been interpreted for members of that community, it has the status of law, not custom.

So the question "May I open an umbrella on shabbos" is really a question "does opening an umbrella constitute a violation of the prohibition against building on shabbos?" Community A has a legal tradition of ruling Yes, it's a violation of this prohibition and therefore is not permitted on shabbos. Community B has a legal tradition of ruling No, it's not a violation of the laws of building and therefore is permitted on shabbos.

A legal tradition is not the same thing as a minhag. it's a set of logical procedures for how one rules on a question. Once the ruling is enacted, it has the status of law, not custom. If you are a member of a community where the law is that swimming on shabbos is forbidden, and you swim on shabbos, you are not "failing to uphold a custom," you are breaking a religious law. There's an important distinction.
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amother
Navy


 

Post Wed, Aug 24 2016, 2:22 pm
Again there are many interpretations to when one can go to the mikva Friday night.

I was told Post Partum I can go Friday night, even if I push it off from the night I should go based on when I made my hefsek. This is yeshivish, not chassidish.
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