When is horrible behavior excusable?

amother

Maroon

Sun, Sep 04 2016, 9:50 pm

My father is a horrible person. There is no question about this. I posted a little about my childhood here a little while ago. Anyone who knows the details agrees- he's a bad man. But then I think about my fathers own childhood and the horrific things that he had to endure that undoubtedly helped shape him into the man he became. So is it an excuse? Why not? I often wonder this about adults who do terrible things. Child molesters, murderers, rapists and the like. Sometimes the facts about their own upbringing come out and you hear about the terrible abuse that they grew up with. I'm not saying they shouldn't be punished but whose to say that us "normal" people would be any better under the same horrific conditions? I'd like to have some clarity on this.

Maya

Sun, Sep 04 2016, 9:57 pm

We should only look at their backgrounds and childhood experiences as a way to understand and gain clarity about their actions, or try to learn what not to do, but never to excuse it. Ultimately, every person is responsible for how they choose to act as adults. Even if people say "they can't help themselves" because their behaviors are so rooted in childhood dysfunction, they are perfectly aware of what they are doing, and they CHOOSE not to seek help to stop the horrible behaviors. That's why they are held accountable.

tryinghard

Sun, Sep 04 2016, 9:59 pm

Understanding where a behavior comes from does not mean excusing it. Some people get help (professional or otherwise) to work through their issues, and others do not. His childhood explains why he is the way he is - but he had and has the bechira not to treat others in a horrible way.

Plonis

Sun, Sep 04 2016, 9:59 pm

First of all, hugs to you, OP, for enduring what you endured and breaking the pattern.

I think we differentiate between the person and the behavior.

It is not our job to call a person "bad."

It IS our job to call behavior bad. And to stop it. And to prevent it - by punishment if necessary.

It is Hashem's job to assign levels of guilt and blame, to say whether the person could have overcome it or was honestly doing his best with what he had.

It is our job to say, "I love your neshama, which is always pure, but I cannot tolerate your actions."

Sometimes it is our job to say, "The same Torah that teaches Kibud Av teaches that I must protect myself; in this case by cutting off contact with you."

Sometimes we say, "I know that your suffering is what taught you this negative behavior pattern, but I cannot tolerate the behavior. For you I have rachmonus, but can in no way condone how you are acting."

But we always say, "Chayecha Kodmin. I, like you, am created by Hashem, Betzelem Elokim. I cannot be spoken to or treated this way."

And we daven that Hashem erase the sins, and not the sinners, from the earth.

amother

Tan

Sun, Sep 04 2016, 10:23 pm

I also have this question but even if it is harder for some people because they grew up in dysfunction, we are born with a moral compass. You can say that suicide bombers or ISIS members are victims. At what point does it end? We have bechirah. Although I certainly think your father, lets say, started off at a much bigger disadvantage to, say R" moshe feinsteins son. So yes u should view him with some dan lekaf zchus. That question is ultimately for hashem.

amother

Lilac

Sun, Sep 04 2016, 10:32 pm

I grew up in an abusive environment. So did my father.
I chose to change.
I don't blame him for his hurt or his past.
I blame him for not seeking professional help. Though, it is hard to blame him for that also, as mental health awareness was much lower back then.
I never did forgive. I may never be able to remember any of my childhood, and therefore won't forget.
I would blame myself if I ever, ever hurt my children. I would seek help immediately, so it shouldn't happen again.
I don't think I am exceptional, nor do I believe your father was exceptional in his generation.
It still doesn't excuse his dispicable behavior. It just helps me make sense of a wretched soul who happened to have been my sperm donor.