Effects of Ruchie Freier's Civil Court Judge big win

Mevater

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 12:48 pm

Will many more Heimish women get Medical and Law degrees, after this historical first?

Will this have any effect going forward, on how Heimish schools look at highly educated women, and encourage this rather than discourage?

Mrs Freier must have gotten Chassidishe support and vote if she ran and won in BP.

How did the big Rebbes, Satmar included, explain endorsing her, if they look down at higher education for women? Isnt part of the reason that Satmar offers their students minimal secular education, to keep them sheltered and away from the secular world, as much as possible?

Will things change or is she viewed as some exception, and others will still be discouraged from getting Medical and Law degrees?

Will women be empowered and benefit in some way by her win?

Mr Avigdor got about half as many votes as Mrs Freier. How did that happen in the frum community, with Mr Avigdor having name recognition for many years, and less potential issues in the frum community, when electing a male?

Thoughts?

amother

Slateblue

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 12:53 pm

I don't think it will have a dramatic effect, but I do think it will have some effect.

Ruchie Frier is actually well known in the chassidish communities for the incredible efforts she has spearheaded. B'Derech, Ezras Nashim, Chasdei Devorah, etc. She has been featured in the heimishe magazines, and many people are impressed by what she has accomplished, especially since she has raised a large chassidish family at the same time. And about name recognition, I hadn't even heard of Avigdor before the election.

There are many people in BP who are excited that a chassidish woman won, and there are also many people who are crying "kol kevudah bas melech pnima", feminism, a Jewish woman belongs in the home and this is anti-Torah, etc. Check out Matzav and the other frum news outlets for more of those comments.

Personally, I'm very, very happy that she won.

Mevater

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 12:59 pm

I would think one of the Chassidus-es that is probably most uncomfortable with her candidacy and win, would be Satmar. Unless they stand to gain with it.

Which candidate did both Satmar schools send home Tzetlach to vote for? I think Satmar is involved and endorses candidates in every election.

Maya

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 1:28 pm

Mevater wrote:

The Monroe Satmar endorsed her... As did a few other Chassidish rebbes, as per a letter they signed to that effect.

I do not think this will have any effect on women and education. The Chassidish leaders are not praising her education, they just saw an opportunity for further advancement of their agenda and took it. It has nothing to do with her or her accomplishments. They are not endorsing her PERSONALLY, just what she can do for them.

Which is why I don't see this as a win for the frum community at all. Family court, no less.

Mevater

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 1:40 pm

Maya wrote:

They are not endorsing her PERSONALLY, just what she can do for them.

Just Satmar's tolerance of this speaks volumes to me. How will the Satmar girls high school teachers explain their endorsing her to high school girls who might want to get law degrees???

Will they say:

"Its absolutely ASSUR, no ands ifs or buts, for a Heimishe woman to get an advanced degree, like in law or medicine, and shes the lowest of the low for getting a degree, impure and spoiled by secularism, after years of sitting learning studying and sharing ideas among VILE and IMMORAL men and women of all nationalities, etc.

We just endorsed her for what we can gain from her!"

Pretty funny.

Some students are going to question this.

Maya

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 1:46 pm

Mevater wrote:

I don't see why it's funny. It's sad, because this is exactly what they would say, albeit in nicer terms. Although she is not a Satmar woman, so perhaps they will just say, "Oy the Bobover produced such a person who became a lawyer. Our students won't take an example from those Bobover lowlives. Nu, but let's focus on how we can use her for our gain."

Hopefully the students who question this will be the ones to disregard the rules, take her as an example, and go on to get their own higher education.

Maya

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 1:52 pm

agreer wrote:

I think it will be inspirational to women, and more will broaden their horizons. It may take time, even a generation, but it will happen.

In my opinion, it will happen, but not because Ruchy Freier became a judge. Certainly not on a grand scale.

imasinger

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 1:52 pm

Given the recent thread about the woman who got a heter to have a computer because of a SN child, and then the same rav who gave the heter got her fired from her job in a school because she had one, I doubt anyone is going to be changing their tunes so quickly because of this one thing.

That being said, every drop in the bucket probably helps.

Mevater

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 2:04 pm

Maya wrote:

In my opinion, it will happen, but not because Ruchy Freier became a judge. Certainly not on a grand scale.

I agree. Those who want to broaden their horizons, will do so, with nothing to do with Ruchie Freier. But they may use her as an example to nay-saying family who try to dissuade those who want to get advanced secular education, and say if you go to college and further, you get "fardorben". They will be able to say "Look at Ruchie Freier, she stayed very frum".

I wonder if Freiers children will get advanced degrees.

Last edited by Mevater on Wed, Sep 14 2016, 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

m in Israel

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 2:05 pm

Mevater wrote:

I don't really know these communities so I can't say what affect this will have. But I don't see why they couldn't say something like this if they wanted to. Rabbanim often endorse candidates whose lifestyles they don't approve -- even not frum, intermarried Jews, for example! (I am not cvs implying there is any comparison between this woman and those other candidates -- I'm just addressing the concept of endorsing candidates whom they disagree with) Endorsements of a candidate are simply presented as we think this person in office will have the best results for our community -- nothing to do with respecting the person and their life choices.

amother

Chocolate

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 2:51 pm

A) I do not think this will have any affect in the future, since most will look at it in a way of "well, she's different, and so she can do it, but neh, I'm not even aiming there...."
B) she is a very controversial figure in her own community.
C) her oldest is just about newly married, not the typical boro park role model of a family if you ask most......
so no, I'm gald for her that she won, I'm upset that my 12 yr. old daughter asked me "ma, it's cute that this typical BP lady just went and won office one nice morning", that is not the image of an eishes chayil that I want her to have

amother

Slateblue

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 2:53 pm

Chocolate, in what way is she controversial? I'm from a Bobov background and never heard any controversial things about her.

And I don't think it's fair to post her personal family issues on a public forum...

ally

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 3:00 pm

Maya wrote:

In my opinion, it will happen, but not because Ruchy Freier became a judge. Certainly not on a grand scale.

I agree with she is not the sole arbiter of change.
But I do think that her achievements, in terms of a role model are significant. It is generally accepted that exposure to role models and mentors increases the chance of women (and minorities) succeeding.

amother

Navy

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 3:05 pm

amother wrote:

A) I do not think this will have any affect in the future, since most will look at it in a way of "well, she's different, and so she can do it, but neh, I'm not even aiming there...."
B) she is a very controversial figure in her own community.
C) her oldest is just about newly married, and had plenty of issues herself - not the typical boro park role model of a family if you ask most......
so no, I'm gald for her that she won, I'm upset that my 12 yr. old daughter asked me "ma, it's cute that this typical BP lady just went and won office one nice morning", that is not the image of an eishes chayil that I want her to have

Why not?

Maya

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 3:12 pm

ally wrote:

Yes, that's true for the average person in the world. Not so much in Chassidish society. People who are successful in areas that are frowned upon, especially women, are often labeled as a little crazy. After all, we don't want our young girls to learn from that, so we have to find some sort of off-putting label for those who defied the community standards.

happybeingamom

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 3:16 pm

amother wrote:

A) I do not think this will have any affect in the future, since most will look at it in a way of "well, she's different, and so she can do it, but neh, I'm not even aiming there...."
B) she is a very controversial figure in her own community.
C) her oldest is just about newly married, and had plenty of issues herself - not the typical boro park role model of a family if you ask most......
so no, I'm gald for her that she won, I'm upset that my 12 yr. old daughter asked me "ma, it's cute that this typical BP lady just went and won office one nice morning", that is not the image of an eishes chayil that I want her to have

Interesting you say that is not the image of an eishes chayil because when I actually read the eishes chayil it is talking about an accomplished woman in many areas.

Maya

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 3:16 pm

happybeingamom wrote:

Interesting you say that is not the image of an eishes chayil because when I actually read the eishes chayil it is talking about an accomplished woman in many areas.

Mostly in areas of domesticity.

happybeingamom

Wed, Sep 14 2016, 3:20 pm

Maya wrote:

Mostly in areas of domesticity.

There is business too

"She is like a merchant's ships; from afar she brings her sustenance "

"She considers a field and buys it; from the fruit of her handiwork she plants a vineyard."

"Garments she makes and sells, and she delivers a belt to the peddler. "

Professions and earning a living are different in 2016 so obviously that is not what is written there.