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-> Interesting Discussions
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amother
Olive
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 Mon, Sep 19 2016, 9:40 pm
In recent years it has seemingly become more encouraged to "open up" and not hide from the things that we might consider shameful.
As I write this, I realize that it applies very strongly to the LGBT community but I was actually thinking about things like miscarriage, death and marital issues.
In my experience, it's become more common for people to discuss or bring awareness about a miscarriage for example.
If I'm not mistaken, the idea behind that is to not feel burdened by the shame associated with these events and topics that were "swept under the rug."
So my question is- when people didn't (and still don't) share- was it out of a sense of shame or just to protect their privacy?
Miscarriage for example- the extreme "shame" being hiding it from everyone and now the more common Facebook posts "when I had my miscarriage". Is it to bring awareness or to free oneself from shame?
I hope this is clear enough so far!
So my question is- someone going through a divorce or marital issues: do they/should they hide it out of shame? Or should they be sharing their experiences to bring awareness?
Where does the line for privacy get drawn? Would it be considered oversharing? Is it a breach of their (soon to be ex) spouse's privacy?
If anyone had any clarity or opinions, I'd love to hear them!
(Anonymous because I'm still ashamed!)
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amother
Maroon
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Mon, Sep 19 2016, 9:44 pm
Regarding miscarriage, it's privacy. Same privacy as early pregnancy.
Nothing to be ashamed of.
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mommy3b2c
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Mon, Sep 19 2016, 9:47 pm
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Why in the world would someone be ashamed of having a miscarriage? I have never heard of anything like tht in my life.
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amother
Blush
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Mon, Sep 19 2016, 9:53 pm
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my mother had a few miscarriages. She is a very private person so it is something that she never told people. Especially so since they were in the very early pregnancy. Aside for being very private, she was also sad. That's really why people are quiet about it. It's a sad and private thing.
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amother
Natural
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Mon, Sep 19 2016, 9:54 pm
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I am a very private person. I never wanted to talk about my miscarriages with anyone but DH and a select special friend or two. It was nobody's business. Shame had nothing to do with it. I do sometimes mention those miscarriages in conversations now - not with random people but with other friends who didn't know about it back then. A lot of time has passed, the pain isn't fresh anymore, and I feel less protective of those times in my life now that I'm done with having children.
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groovy1224
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Mon, Sep 19 2016, 10:10 pm
The desire for privacy does not indicate the presence of shame.
I think you are mixing up several issues. Yes, there are a lot of issues that are talked about more than they used to be, I.e. Domestic abuse and miscarriages, but lumping them together makes no sense. No one was ever trying to 'sweep miscarriages under the rug,'and I certainly hope no one thought a miscarriage was a source of shame. Domestic abuse, however, was definitely a secret source of shame for our community.
Some issues are talked about more because as a society, we've learned that we pay too big a price to keep them quiet- child abuse, drug problems, OTD teens, etc. Some issues are more talked about simply because now there is the platform to do so- virtually any issue now has its oen Facebook group, chat rooms, support groups, etc. These resources just didn't exist 20+ years ago. So even if someone in the 90's had, say, an autistic child, there weren't as many ways to give/get support as there are now. Again, no shame, just limited outlets.
I don't think anyone can draw a privacy line for you, but it's safe to say if it' something you wouldn't want someone sharing about you, don't share it about others. Remember that whatever you put out there is out there, and can never be taken back. Think of your kids, if you have any, and that anything you share will also affect the way people view them. So I would use caution when posting about an up coming/ underway divorce.
If you believe your personal experience is one that could give a lot if chizzuk if shared, you'll have to weigh the pros and cons of publicizing your private affairs. It may or may not be worth it to you/ your family. I would give it time before making such a decision though.
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amother
Blue
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Mon, Sep 19 2016, 10:28 pm
I was not private about my miscarriage and did tell close family and others in circumstances where it was relevant.
Divorce might be kept private for reasons other than shame. One might be afraid to talk about their divorce because there will be questions and yentas that will talk and be annoying to answer and to deal with. Also to protect privacy/ integrity of ex and children if there are any.
Some people are also more private by nature. Others are more open about everything.
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zaq
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Mon, Sep 19 2016, 10:45 pm
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Some things are private, and some things are private to some people and not to others. If I feel that what I had for lunch, or the color of my socks, is a private matter, it is entirely my right to refuse to discuss it with other people. Al achat kama vechama my s*xual orientation or reproductive health status. By the same token, anyone who feels that these things are not private is free to discuss her shoe size, bra size and s*xual proclivities with anyone who is willing to listen. I just hope she doesn't inflict them upon people who don't want to know, because that is an invasion of THEIR privacy.
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boysrus
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Mon, Sep 19 2016, 10:51 pm
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Is it possible that the OP is confusing shame with embarrassment.? there really is a difference. If you are ashamed about somethign, its usually because you did something wrong and shameful. If you are embarrassed about somehing it can be something much milder than that, it can be embarrassed about somebody knowing your private busineess because you are a private person. I think the original post could make a lot more sense to readers if you mentally read the word embarrassment, or embarraassed every time it says shame or ashamed.
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chani8
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Tue, Sep 20 2016, 1:10 am
Sharing is very helpful because one gets support. Support is a key factor in the healing process.
As for violating a soon to be ex-spouse's privacy, the rules of shmiras haloshon apply here. A person can confide in and vent to their support people, but those support people must be shmiras haloshen, too.
That means not FB'ing anything negative that makes another person look bad. But being open about going through a divorce...that's not negative. Unless one bashes the spouse. No bashing in public spheres is allowed.
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sequoia
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Tue, Sep 20 2016, 1:40 am
This is so individual. Culture, personality, time period...
My maternal grandmother had a stillbirth. She never talked about it. Neither did my mom. That's because they both have very masculine personalities and always pretend to be happy, or, if not, the only negative emotion they express is anger/irritation.
My aunt, on the other hand, has a much more feminine nature and isn't afraid of expressing sadness. She's the one who told me about it.
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amother
Jade
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Tue, Sep 20 2016, 1:44 am
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Addiction is something I would put in this category as well. Our culture (Frum Jewish) keeps addicts and families of addicts silent because of shame. It goes counter to the recovery models that show the negative impact of secret keeping. Yet the secret is kept.
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amother
Amethyst
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Tue, Sep 20 2016, 2:53 am
Sometimes people don't want to talk while they are going through a difficult situation because they need space to cope but are happy to share their experience later, especially if they think it will help others. I guess that's privacy without shame.
I think that we have a responsibility to find a balance. People need to feel safe about discussing problems and getting help, and at the same time, we should not encourage a tell all world where nothing is private.
As a side point - I cannot stand when people refer to cancer as "yenne machla." When you don't call something by its name, you imply that there is something shameful there, something to be hidden. Why should we be ashamed of illness?
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chanchy123
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Tue, Sep 20 2016, 3:26 am
I think that when we are talking about info that involves other people, relationship with parents, siblings, friends, spouses, etc - you should exercise double caution, because another person is involved. If you are sharing your marital problems with a good friend or close family member for support or advise - I guess that's ok. But to share with the world or even just a wider circle of family and friends I think is not ok without the permission of the other person (here, the DH, even if he is not so D). It's not fair to them, they deserve their privacy - especially when they probably have another side of the story to tell.
If you're already divorced or have decided officially on a divorce or seperation or whatever, I'd treat it like pregnancy, it's something people are bound to find out in the future, why not control the information and tell people straight out, with your perspective without too much personal information involving kids or XDH if possible.
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kollel wife
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Tue, Sep 20 2016, 10:29 am
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"Yenne Machlah" - I thought we say that out of ayin hora, to take away the power from the disease - not to refer to it by name, not out of shame whatsoever.
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amother
Amethyst
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Tue, Sep 20 2016, 10:32 am
| kollel wife wrote: | | "Yenne Machlah" - I thought we say that out of ayin hora, to take away the power from the disease - not to refer to it by name, not out of shame whatsoever. |
I know, but consider the results. People do die of "yenne machla." Obviously, not naming the disease doesn't render it powerless. All it does is create shame.
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Debbie
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Tue, Sep 20 2016, 10:36 am
| kollel wife wrote: | | "Yenne Machlah" - I thought we say that out of ayin hora, to take away the power from the disease - not to refer to it by name, not out of shame whatsoever. |
In that case why is this not used for other life threatening illnesses?
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sourstix
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Tue, Sep 20 2016, 10:39 am
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I once heard from someone that a big tzadik said not to call cancer by its name there is a segula that if not using the name but "yena machla " that they won't get the disease. It's a segula nothing to do with shame at all.
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sourstix
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Tue, Sep 20 2016, 10:40 am
[quote="Debbie"]In that case why is this not used for other life threatening illnesses?[/quote]
Good question. Maybe ask your rabbi
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sourstix
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Tue, Sep 20 2016, 10:43 am
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I doubt anyone is ashamed of cancer.
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