How to preserve DH's stature in the kids' eyes

amother

Slateblue

Wed, Sep 21 2016, 9:49 pm

DH is very emotional, reactive, and unreasonable.

Example: Moishy (age 7) is building a lego tower. Shmully (age 5) comes over and knocks it down. Moishy howls. DH comes in and demands Moishy stop crying, and is forced to go to his room until he "calms down." Moishy is forced to leave; Shmully gets to play with the lego.

Completely backwards, right?

It's even worse with the older kids. He is upset they go to sleep too late (which they do, for various reasons), so he'll implement super duper early bedtime- but davka the night they have a friend sleeping over. Like why not any other night? What am I supposed to do? How can I take the kids' "side" even though he's so wrong?

He won't go to parenting classes or listen to me. He claims I'm too soft and let the kids manipulate me. I claim he's unreasonable and the kids take him for a fool. (Another quick ex: he got mad at Yanky for burping at the table and gave him some sort of small token punishment. Two seconds later he unabashedly burps loudly. The kids see him as a reactive fool.)

The issue is: how to present a united front to the kids when he is such a poor decision maker and parent? How do I defend his illogical "decrees?"

amother

Fuchsia

Wed, Sep 21 2016, 10:03 pm

wow he needs help real quick! It's not ok for him to behave this way. u need to stand up to him. Don't allow him to go further. This borders on abuse. If he is like this all the time u need to stop it. You protect your kids that is first. Wrong for him To behave this way.

Upsets me every time I see this. I have a child with severe adhd. I wonder how he would handle that. It's not ok. Your kids are acting normal and you can't stand up for him when he's illogical and not making sense. He needs to understand his behavior and stop it

So because you are soft which is normal he becomes irrational? ask him how he would feel if he was treated so unfairly. Maybe he will get it then. There needs to be the soft one and it's usually the mother. But he can't be the irrational one cause that is even worse.

I really think u need to speak to someone that is experienced in dealing with chinch and shalom bayis someone professional and see if they can help u. I don't know if you can get help here. U really need professional help. This affects your kids.

amother

Slateblue

Wed, Sep 21 2016, 10:26 pm

amother wrote:

Later on, when things are quiet and calm, we discuss things and he almost always agrees with me. The problem is, at the time of "stress" (ie, Moishy is crying out) (clearly, he has an extraordinarily low tolerance for stress), he forgets all that we agreed to. So we discuss it again, at a quiet time. And round and round we go. He needs therapy to bring his intellectual agreement over the right approach to the practical level (and stop being so reactive), but he will never ever go.

FWIW, I try to stick up for them, and often succeed, but it's a pyrrhic victory when I had to contradict his direct order to do so ("no, Moishy, you don't have to go to your room").

amother

Taupe

Wed, Sep 21 2016, 10:59 pm

amother wrote:

Why because dh gets mad at you?

trixx

Thu, Sep 22 2016, 12:05 am

amother wrote:

I have no solution to your problem. Your kids will grow up having zero respect for him. There comes a time that no matter what you do to rationalize his poor parenting the children will be old enough to see through it.

This and, they will probably lose respect for you as well for having sided with their illogical and temperamental father. Years down the line when married themselves, they might come to see you in a positive way but I doubt older kids or teens will, and that age is when it's most important.

I second getting a professional well versed in both chinuch and shalom bayis. And no kid should have to suffer for having an immature father.

amother

Fuchsia

Thu, Sep 22 2016, 12:48 am

I know that when I am irrational I allow dh to take over. I would rather not say stupid things then look like a fool. But yes you step in and take over. Just have a discussion about it and a cue so he knows he's irrational and he should go take a break. He should understand that not everyone has the greatest skills in parenting. That doesn't make them bad. It's not being open to change that is bad. I had this to a,degree but I felt terrible after doing stupid things and I came to a conclusion that I need dh to step in when I'm overwhelmed and irrational. Nothing wrong. He is feeling inadequate about something and loses it on the kids. Not fair.

So different things happen in such a situation. Kids lose respect for both parents and they might continue the cycle with their kids and the generations later suffer. No one gains. It's a loss.

amother

Maroon

Thu, Sep 22 2016, 5:42 am

I have a very similar problem, only worse. my dh's behavior is sometimes abusive. When he's in a good mood, he's the most amazing father and the kids love him, but he has a relatively low stress tolerance threshold, and a quick temper. I have often wondered what to do after he throws the kids into their rooms (literally), broken things out of anger in front of the children or other violent behavior towards the children or otherwise. Again, like op above, when he calms down he regrets it every time and really feels terrible, but he just can't control himself in the moment. Now, before everyone starts screaming abuse, therapy, divorce and all that, realize that life is very complex and its not simple. I would rather be married to a great guy with serious character flaws than divorced.
I have wondered how to talk to the kids after they've been mistreated. I have a mentor who is very strong on not showing disrespect in from of the kids towards their dad, even when his behavior isn't appropriate. On the other hand I really just want to hug them and tell them its not their fault and sometimes adults do things that are wrong, so they should realize that this is not normal. He will never go to therapy. The main problem is the children thinking they deserve this mistreatment, or that its normal to lose control and break things or hurt people. My kids also destroy or throw things when they're angry, to varying degrees.

amother

Natural

Thu, Sep 22 2016, 6:14 am

amother wrote:

So, YOU have decided that being married to a a man whose "character flaws" include abusing your children, is better than being divorced? How can you, their mother and sole protector, justify this?! You're questioning how you can teach your children to respect a man who abuses them? Now, while they are presumably young, you may be able to coerce them to respect their father but I have news for you, as they understand what you have allowed him to do to them, they not only will not respect him, they will hate you as soon as they are old enough to realize that you stood by and did not protect them when they were absolutely helpless. Your pursuit of presenting this united front and all that is so tragically misguided! That is only the goal when 2 parents disagree on an issue, so as not to confuse the child, and actually provides the child a sense of security. Chas v'shalom in your situation you'd be telling your children that you don't cherish them, but are instead siding with their abuser. You'd be showing them that they have absolutely noone to rely on or trust in this world.
I know he's sometimes a great guy, I get it. Most abusers are, that's why it's so confusing. If it were all bad, all the time, nobody would ever stay! You love your children, and are worried about their chinuch. I'm not telling you to get divorced, just to get help. Please love them enough to get help, don't be makriv them as karbonos on the mizbayach of your marriage. I say all this with love, and I really understand where you're coming from. Please realize that you're in denial, and your denial of what must be horrifying to you- that your dear husband, and father of your children is abusive- will not make it better. This is not a chinuch issue. You cannot normalize your situation by trying to make it into one.

amother

Sapphire

Thu, Sep 22 2016, 6:20 am

amother wrote:

Yeah my mom sounded the same way as you. You are destroying your kids, no two ways about it.

You can rationalize as you like, but be aware that your children may very likely blame you for not standing up for them when they were vulnerable and helpless. Some of them might not want to speak to you when they are adults.

If you want to be married to an abusive man rather than get divorced, that's your prerogative. Once there are children in the picture, that is one of the most selfish things you can ever do in your life.

amother

Sapphire

Thu, Sep 22 2016, 6:39 am

amother wrote:

ok, so I knew I'd get responses like this. Its not like he's doing this every second. Have you ever lost your temper or hit ('potched' if you will, that sounds better, right?) your kids? does that make you abusive?
He's not at all your typical charismatic controlling abuser with a master plan to control anyone, just a person with, as I said, serious character flaws, who really needs to work on himself. I'm not sanctioning his behavior, but it is not happening every monday and thursday.
Its the overall poor parenting that takes place more often, which is why I posted on this thread.

Abuse doesn't happen every second. There is a cycle of abuse. And it doesn't matter if it 'only' happens once a month. It is still traumatizing your kids, eroding their trust in others and destroying their self image and confidence, and is setting them up for attachment problems in relationships with their own spouses and kids.

I've hear all this rationalizing before from my own parents. You can try to excuse as much as you like, but it's denial and your selfishness is harming your children.

ETA: There are abusers whose abuse stems from a personality disorder. That is probably the charming abuser you describe. Then there are those whose abuse stem from their upbringing or circumstances, which can be changed a lot of times if they are forced to go for professional help.

amother

Natural

Thu, Sep 22 2016, 6:42 am

amother wrote:

Okay, you are clearly still focused on normalizing the abnormal. Let me just say that not knowing when it's coming, and the inconsistency of his responses is part of what is so terrifying for the abused. It makes them feel unstable and scared much more than only the time that he is actually actively abusive. Head in the sand doesn't change anything. As pp said, you are sacrificing your children's well being, and probably eventually your relationship with them.

amother

Vermilion

Thu, Sep 22 2016, 7:02 am

Slate blue, I hear you. Dh is reactive as well. He values kids listening immediately you adults/authority and he values kids/people being able to deal with whatever and no other get too bent out of shape about it. In the meantime, whatever/whoever is bothering him most will likely get the most reaction from him. And yes, he won't do therapy.

Have you tried getting parenting books for yourself and leaving them around the house? If dh had a chance of picking them up, it might help. I have also done this with the children's "My friend the..." series.

It's not easy. Sometimes we have to tell the kids dh erred. This is helped a lot if dh himself will apologize. But I really do think a lot of men view the world differently and expect different things from kids than we do. Maybe it's because as boys they were expected to just listen and deal, to "man up."