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Vent - Please use your brains in conversation!
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amother
Purple


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 1:46 am
Small talk may be the opposite of intellectual discourse but it does not mean you should turn off your brain. I both experienced and observed some really thoughtless chatter over yomtov that was just painful in its stupidity.

Such as, if someone says that due to medical reasons their young child who is standing right there is not allowed to eat bragberries, the appropriate response is not to go on and on about how great they are and ask how in the world you can be without them. The child might not know this yet, which is just as well because they might not have the emotional maturity to cope with that information. And even if it weren't a young child, this would still not be the brightest response.

Such as, if you ask where someone's teenage son is davening and they say "he'll go where he feels comfortable" this might not be the best time to ask where specifically that is and why he didn't specify beforehand and what a shame because it would have been so nice to see him with the rest of the family.

Such as, if you pop in in middle of a conversation that goes "You really need to come for a Shabbos, we haven't had you in ages" and continues "Yeah I know, we're not really into going out for Shabbos but we should totally get together one Sunday," it is REALLY not your place to nose in and say "What do you mean - you just went away the last three Shabboses in a row!"

Such as, for the sake of all that is good and holy, do not ever say anything about a person's body, eating habits, or reproductive status.

Now, someone please say some things to restore my faith in humanity and make me want to socialize ever again.
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amother
Periwinkle


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 1:51 am
Can I sit next to you at every simcha?
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 1:53 am
Do you think people are saying those things purposely? Or "turning off their brains" purposely?
I'm sure they feel bad about what they said, after the fact.
I say the stupidest things sometimes. I'm not so socially savvy, and also adhd. The two of those together cause me to say things lacking thought. I hate it. But there's not really much I can do other than just not talk at all, which I've actually started to do.
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heidi




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 1:54 am
The comments about the kids allergies sound insensitive.
The other two comments you describe sound like someone is very sensitive about their situation right now and hypersensitive to other people's (seemingly harmless) comments.
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 5:54 am
It helps to have a sense of humor. Having a sense of humor helps to cope with awkward of all kinds.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 6:43 am
As a general rule, it works better in conversation to ask questions than to state opinions. Particularly opinions about what other people are doing "wrong."

OP, I hope that those insensitive comments were not all directed at you. Hug
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 7:49 am
I can see on conversation about a boy who "will daven wherever" on Rosh Hashanah easily leading to "Where in town can he go without reserving a seat?" And unfortunately, as a mother of a child who isn't walking the expected path, one has to come prepared with pat answers to expected questions, and fudge others.

"Why did you choose that school for your child?", for exanple, can be a loaded question that I have learned not to ask from personal experience because not every child ends up in a school their parents would have chosen, and sometimes if we did choose it, it doesn't benefit our child to expose the real reason. But it's still a fair question, so you need an answer.

With talking on front of kids, I think people just don't think. "Oh! You have Rabbi Schwartz!" He's supposed to be really hard but you appreciate it later," may not be a smart way to help a fourth grader start a year if he hasn't already tell you the rebbe is hard.
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amother
Navy


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 8:04 am
amother wrote:
Small talk may be the opposite of intellectual discourse but it does not mean you should turn off your brain. I both experienced and observed some really thoughtless chatter over yomtov that was just painful in its stupidity.

Such as, if someone says that due to medical reasons their young child who is standing right there is not allowed to eat bragberries, the appropriate response is not to go on and on about how great they are and ask how in the world you can be without them. The child might not know this yet, which is just as well because they might not have the emotional maturity to cope with that information. And even if it weren't a young child, this would still not be the brightest response.

Such as, if you ask where someone's teenage son is davening and they say "he'll go where he feels comfortable" this might not be the best time to ask where specifically that is and why he didn't specify beforehand and what a shame because it would have been so nice to see him with the rest of the family.

Such as, if you pop in in middle of a conversation that goes "You really need to come for a Shabbos, we haven't had you in ages" and continues "Yeah I know, we're not really into going out for Shabbos but we should totally get together one Sunday," it is REALLY not your place to nose in and say "What do you mean - you just went away the last three Shabboses in a row!"

Such as, for the sake of all that is good and holy, do not ever say anything about a person's body, eating habits, or reproductive status.

Now, someone please say some things to restore my faith in humanity and make me want to socialize ever again.



I always say that you can't control other people and the world has many dumb, insensitive, rude, obnoxious, thoughtless people. You can't go to a simcha or sit outside with your neighbors and expect them to be what you consider normal. Some people simply aren't.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 8:21 am
Just like no two people in the world look exactly the same, so too does everyone's brain work differently.

It does sound like you are in a very sensitive state. All of these comments are stupid but just move past them. People make mistakes.

I've had already times where I went home and wanted to bite my tongue with a comment that I made that I realized after might have been insensitive . And I learned for the next time to not repeat my mistakes. That's life
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iyar




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 10:20 am
I had to check out this conversation because I was sure it was about ---
Me!
I breathed a sigh of relief when I read through all the "such as"-s and didn't find myself the featured speaker.
I said something brainless over Yom Tov. And of all Yamim Tovim - it was Rosh Hashanah! (I know you all figured that out already.)
I've been on both the giving end and the receiving end of thoughtless, hurtful comments.
I hope people can find it in their hearts to forgive me when I say something dumb. And what helps me forgive when I'm on the receiving end is reminding myself of the stupid things I've said in the past.
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 1:44 pm
Op I feel for you. I understand. I would love to explain the poster with adhd and social issues. Just so understand where it comes from. People with these issues don't mean it as you feel it. They don't think we'll before they have an impulse control issue . It's who they are and that's how they were created. Usually people with adhd are the most loving people. They are the ones who will do u a favor before the blink of an eye. I know because I have a child this way. Please for your own sake don't add judgement to them they don't mean it. They don't even always get even when u tell them. That is how their brain works. Their brain works so quick and their impulsivity doesn't let them slow down . Their comments come before they, even realized what they did.
Now to all those who are not afhd let others on this thread explain it away.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 2:19 pm
I agree that comments and questions about one's appearance and/or one's body should be clearly off limits.

Beyond that, though, it's easy for people to fall down rabbit holes and wind up in conversations they never intended. It's impossible to know exactly what question may prompt an emotional reaction. It's annoying to have to anticipate every possible prejudice, stereotype, and sensitivity that might cause people to react negatively.

So I vote for widely condemning people who ask if we're pregnant or advise us that we've gained weight while cutting everyone else a little slack.

Asking what school a child is attending may seem like a perfectly innocent question if you don't know or didn't remember that the little darling has been thrown out of every school in town.

The lady saying, "Let's see -- did I hear that your Shmueli is attending Yeshivas Vilde Chai this year?" may not keep up with the status of various yeshivas and might not realize that suggesting that Shmueli is a talmid at YVC is a grave insult.

The acquaintance who won't accept a vague answer may not be good at picking up subtleties or perhaps you're not as good at deflecting the question as you think.

Whatever the circumstances, the majority of people are simply trying to make conversation and more-or-less catch up on what's going on since they saw you last. Most of them won't remember the details after a day or two.

So brazen it out, like Chani8 said, with humor and confidence.

One good technique is to focus on a single piece of information, thus allowing you to avoid details you'd rather not discuss. For example, if the neighborhood yenta wants to know where Shmueli is, you can say, "Oh, it's so exciting! He got the opportunity to go with a group to South America this year. Can you believe he's learning about llama farming? You should hear what he's told us about llamas. For example, did you know that llamas . . . "

This allows you to avoid the fact that Shmueli joined a cult and that you're currently involved in getting him deprogrammed just as soon as you can drag him out of the yurt he lives in on the llama farm.

As for the people who ask about the contents of your womb or make similar personal comments, the best strategy is to open your eyes really wide in shock while covering your mouth with one hand while clutching your imaginary pearls with the other. Keep that pose until the person gives up and wanders off.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 2:45 pm
Rolling Laughter Hooray Not worthy Salut

Another quote worthy post from the Amazing Fox!
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WhatFor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 3:58 pm
Fox wrote:
....

One good technique is to focus on a single piece of information, thus allowing you to avoid details you'd rather not discuss. For example, if the neighborhood yenta wants to know where Shmueli is, you can say, "Oh, it's so exciting! He got the opportunity to go with a group to South America this year. Can you believe he's learning about llama farming? You should hear what he's told us about llamas. For example, did you know that llamas . . . "

This allows you to avoid the fact that Shmueli joined a cult and that you're currently involved in getting him deprogrammed just as soon as you can drag him out of the yurt he lives in on the llama farm.

As for the people who ask about the contents of your womb or make similar personal comments, the best strategy is to open your eyes really wide in shock while covering your mouth with one hand while clutching your imaginary pearls with the other. Keep that pose until the person gives up and wanders off.


Smile Rolling Laughter Rolling Laughter Rolling Laughter
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amother
Purple


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 4:51 pm
Fox, thank you for making everything all better as always LOL Knew I could count on imamother to fix this.

The truth is that I also have foot in mouth disease. I like to think that I've matured but for sure when I was younger I would have done that. It's just that right now I'm on the venting end. They're not mutually exclusive. You can say things that were stupid, hopefully regret it and try not to do it again, and also wish that other people wouldn't.

I don't think the kinds of things I'm suggesting are about oversensitivity. Oversensitivity is when someone asks "What do you do?" without knowing that you just lost your job, it's a shame that your raw nerve was touched but it was a normal exchange and you just have to learn to say "I'm between things now" or whatever you want to use. But it goes over into thoughtlessness when after hearing "I'm between things now" you move on into "Why did you leave your job, I thought you liked it there?" AND then when they say "it just didn't work out" you go on into "That's funny because my sister-in-law's uncle's cat has been working there about a year now and seems so happy."
Oversensitivity is when they ask what school your kids go to without knowing that they were kicked out. It stings but it's not stupid. Stupid is when the nosy comments don't know when to stop. "Oh isn't that the place for kids with mental illness? What would YOUR kid be doing THERE?"

Though the truth is that right now I'm in the kind of life where everything is raw and it's not so hard to hurt me. It's just that things hurt enough on the normal side, so when people are especially thoughtless I notice it that much more. Like the shul question - I know it's normal to ask where family members are davening. It stirs up the pain inside me but I'm not really hurting from the question. But when it goes on to "You don't know? Why didn't he tell you?" and so on, well - shut up.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 5:32 pm
Fox, I love you!
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amother
Jade


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 5:47 pm
Thread hijacking alert!

It wasn't strictly speaking on RH but a local motormouth, and I must beg forgiveness for my impatience and resentment because she clearly has a disorder that she can't control, namely having a mouth that runs on wheels and can't be stopped by anything short of flat out walking away, where was I? Oh, right, insensitive comments. So Ms. Motormouth tells me, "your dd put on some weight, didn't she?" I can't say I noticed, I try not to concern myself with anyone's weight other than my own, and the dd looks just fine whether she is a few lbs. more than she was a few years ago or not. I don't lknow and I'm not asking. But what, I ask, was the purpose or value of this comment? If I noticed, I noticed--she doesn't have to tell me. If I didn't notice, why tell me? DD is an adult who no longer lives with me, so even if I wanted to do something about her weight, which I don't, I couldn't.

But this woman as I said has a disorder. She has no filters on her mouth and feels she has to tell everyone evrything she noticed--and she notices everything. To her credit, she'll also notice and let you know if you slimmed down or are wearing a new dress, but really, why does she have to remark about everything? Why can't she just talk about Donald and Hillary like everyone else?
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 9:39 pm
Fox wrote:

One good technique is to focus on a single piece of information, thus allowing you to avoid details you'd rather not discuss. For example, if the neighborhood yenta wants to know where Shmueli is, you can say, "Oh, it's so exciting! He got the opportunity to go with a group to South America this year. Can you believe he's learning about llama farming? You should hear what he's told us about llamas. For example, did you know that llamas . . . "

This allows you to avoid the fact that Shmueli joined a cult and that you're currently involved in getting him deprogrammed just as soon as you can drag him out of the yurt he lives in on the llama farm.


Fox, your post was hysterical, thanks for the laugh. This is a really great tip. I'm a reserved, low-key type, and intrusive questions make me freeze like a deer in headlights. I hate feeling like I have to convey personal information to avoid being rude, and sometimes being evasive also feels rude.

But this is a really great tip and I will try to implement it.

I think that in general, questions about the "facts" of peoples' lives have the potential to feel intrusive.

Recently, I was at a simcha where I didn't know anyone. A woman came over to me and just fired questions at me: How many kids do I have, how old are they, where do they go to school, do I work, what does my husband do, etc, etc. None of those answers are secrets, but it felt extremely annoying to have to stand there answer to a complete stranger who I would probably never see again.

Sometimes the person takes the "safer" tack and just blabs about themselves....which also can become pretty tedious.

So maybe this is OT, but do you (or any other wise women here) have any suggestions for HOW TO make meaningful small talk? I once read somewhere to try to ask opinion questions. So instead of saying, Oh, the weather got cold!, you can ask, What's your favorite type of weather?

But I'm just really bad at knowing how to think of these things, or how to break the ice and start. And the weather can only take you so far....
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 9:51 pm
amother wrote:
Fox, your post was hysterical, thanks for the laugh. This is a really great tip. I'm a reserved, low-key type, and intrusive questions make me freeze like a deer in headlights. I hate feeling like I have to convey personal information to avoid being rude, and sometimes being evasive also feels rude.

But this is a really great tip and I will try to implement it.

I think that in general, questions about the "facts" of peoples' lives have the potential to feel intrusive.

Recently, I was at a simcha where I didn't know anyone. A woman came over to me and just fired questions at me: How many kids do I have, how old are they, where do they go to school, do I work, what does my husband do, etc, etc. None of those answers are secrets, but it felt extremely annoying to have to stand there answer to a complete stranger who I would probably never see again.

Sometimes the person takes the "safer" tack and just blabs about themselves....which also can become pretty tedious.

So maybe this is OT, but do you (or any other wise women here) have any suggestions for HOW TO make meaningful small talk? I once read somewhere to try to ask opinion questions. So instead of saying, Oh, the weather got cold!, you can ask, What's your favorite type of weather?

But I'm just really bad at knowing how to think of these things, or how to break the ice and start. And the weather can only take you so far....


Whatever you do, don't ask ''what's your favorite type of weather?" I just can't imagine such a conversation being interesting. I wouldn't even know what to answer to that question.

But to help you out, a tip I figured out recently when I don't have what to say, is to try to think of something I just saw/experienced and talk about it. I'm not sure I'm explaining well, but basically to say something like "I just saw the most interesting thing outside, a guy was...." or "Had something so wierd happen to me while driving..." doesn't actually have to be major noteworthy event that occurred, but I find that's safe way to start with someone. It can get a conversation going. You just have to have things to talk about. keep your eyes open.
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amother
Forestgreen


 

Post Wed, Oct 05 2016, 9:57 pm
amother wrote:
Thread hijacking alert!

It wasn't strictly speaking on RH but a local motormouth, and I must beg forgiveness for my impatience and resentment because she clearly has a disorder that she can't control, namely having a mouth that runs on wheels and can't be stopped by anything short of flat out walking away, where was I? Oh, right, insensitive comments. So Ms. Motormouth tells me, "your dd put on some weight, didn't she?" I can't say I noticed, I try not to concern myself with anyone's weight other than my own, and the dd looks just fine whether she is a few lbs. more than she was a few years ago or not. I don't lknow and I'm not asking. But what, I ask, was the purpose or value of this comment? If I noticed, I noticed--she doesn't have to tell me. If I didn't notice, why tell me? DD is an adult who no longer lives with me, so even if I wanted to do something about her weight, which I don't, I couldn't.

But this woman as I said has a disorder. She has no filters on her mouth and feels she has to tell everyone evrything she noticed--and she notices everything. To her credit, she'll also notice and let you know if you slimmed down or are wearing a new dress, but really, why does she have to remark about everything? Why can't she just talk about Donald and Hillary like everyone else?


Would you respond in like to her comments?
A woman (total stranger) stopped me on the streets the other day and said. "Btw, you have a slit in the back of your skirt!" I'm like, serious? Oh thanx for telling me.." I look back and continue "it's ok and kosher, there's fabric below slit to cover it." She looks back and says, " That's not considered kosher!". At that point my blood started rising up. Looking at her tightly dressed pregnant stomach I said, "as kosher as your revealing baby belly". She ran off.
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