Do you fast if you are not pregnant & not nursing?

5mom

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 1:19 am

eema of 3 wrote:

I get major abdominal pains, terrible migraines, and I'm knocked out for a week if I fast. Not everyone is a good faster. I don't see any sense of weakness in that. It's reality. Just be happy that it's not YOUR reality. Women have fasted through the ages, and through the ages there have been plenty of women who have not. Does it make them any lesser?

Of course it doesn't make them any lesser. The fact that an individual woman can't keep a particular mitzvah doesn't necessarily mean that all women should be exempt.

As much as some women really cannot fast, I really believe that a lot of this is cultural. Our Muslim sisters manage to fast every day for a month in Ramadan. (Of course, not everyone, but it's the default.) Are we so much weaker?

Victorians believed that women were too delicate for all kinds of things that in fact they could do. Have our bodies changed so much? No, but our social expectations have.

I know very well that some women - and some men - cannot tolerate fasting. For some, even taking Tylenol the day before a fast is enough to impact their fasting abilities. But the idea that women as a whole are too weak to fast just doesn't stand up to reality.

Raisin

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 5:50 am

eema of 3 wrote:

some men are also bad fasters. This is nothing to do with being a woman.

notshanarishona

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 8:28 am

Our Muslim cousins who fast all month could not care less about women risking their health or doing dangerous things.
I was in the hospital with an arab woman post surgery and there were several arab men who came to the hospital each day to help her "daven" despite the fact that she was screaming in pain when they helped her bow because she could barely move.
I don't think we need to learn from them.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 9:11 am

eema of 3 wrote:

I didn't say it was. I was responding to the people who basically said that women who don't fast are lazy or weak.

Dont listen to anyone eema3. I dont listen to any of such responses. Ever. I know my body and I know what I do or dont do. And I dont fast at all except for yk and 9 av. I know that even those two are so hard for me. Dehydration for days after and migraines that are not fun at all. I know what I am allowed to do. You do what you know is good for you. Dont worry about all of the nay sayers. You have your own relationship with your religion and gd. Dont worry about anyone else.

5mom

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 9:22 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

No one is saying that a woman who physically cannot fast should have to fast. Chazal were clear about that. However, Chazal did not create a blanket exemption for all women. See the difference?

LittleDucky

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 10:46 am

I was told by a Rav that the blanket exception for minor fasts is ridiculous and stems from the idea that "all women are probably pregnant or nursing and we don't want to point out who is or is not pregnant". Accordingly, I was told Single girls and all women SHOULD be trying to fast unless there is a medical need- pregnant, nursing, feeling sick. I try to fast if not pregnant or nursing. I have obviously not made it through before but I try.

amother

Coral

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 10:55 am

notshanarishona wrote:

And Jewish men could not care less about women risking their health or doing dangerous things.

I was somewhere and saw a heavily pregnant frum woman shlepping a stroller laden with heavy bags up the stairs while her husband stood by and indifferently clicked through his Blackberry.

Obviously I don't think the first sentence is true, I just want to say that using anecdotal evidence is hardly a compelling proof or argument to support your blanket statement about Muslims.

HonesttoGod

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 11:00 am

Even when I was a teenager and fasted every single fast, I didn't fast Tzom Gedaliah. My father never allowed us too as it is a week before Y"K.

These days I barely manage to fast 9Av and YK. I don't fast well and therefore just do the minimum I have to which is those two.

sourstix

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 11:23 am

Dh gets really sick from fasting. He gets severe dizziness and stomach cramps and very weak. He can only fast on yk and tbav. So he barely makes it those times. The fasting is usually good it's after that takes days to come back.

animeme

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 11:31 am

Does anyone have a source for why a teenage girl would be told not to fast Tzom Gedaliah (or not expected to), but her teenage brother would? Or any woman not pregnant or nursing (or within two years- I understand that one), vs a man of the same level of health?

I understand that there are long-held minhagim. But I guess I get confused when a minhag seems to contradict a Lo Taaseh. So I'd love to hear the source. Is there something that says "women today are weaker than in the previous generation?"

m in Israel

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 12:42 pm

My psak was that I don't need to fast if I'm pregnant (even early on in the pregnancy) or nursing (as long as the nursing is a significant source of nourishment for the baby -- for sure for the first year and a half or so). Otherwise I definitely do fast.

amother

Blush

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 1:30 pm

The problem that I have with the widespread minhag that "women don't fast" is that there is so little awareness of the fast days. It's as if the day doesn't even exist. I taught for a year in a chassidishe high school. I went to BY for high school and on fast days we'd talk about whatever the day was, maybe have an assembly, there would be signs posted reminding people about the fast, there would be a sign taped to the water fountain etc. In the chassidishe school most girls couldn't even tell you what the name of the fast day is, and even some of the teachers seemed unaware. Was that really the intention of Chazal?

And for those who get sick or dehydrated or migraines etc from fasting, this obviously does not apply to you. We are talking about a community standard that women don't fast regardless of their health status. The end result is that not only do they not fast, they lose the awareness of why we are fasting in the first place, as if the day does not apply to them.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 1:32 pm

5mom wrote:

No one is saying that a woman who physically cannot fast should have to fast. Chazal were clear about that. However, Chazal did not create a blanket exemption for all women. See the difference?

HUH? I was not talking about a blanket statement at all.

deech007

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 1:50 pm

amother wrote:

Is there a heter for women not to fast even thought they are not pregnant & not nursing?

So many mothers who are not pregnant & not nursing tell me they just don't fast. Most of them never asked a Rav. They told me that once they became a mother, they never have to fast again besides Tisha B'av & Yom Kippur. Am I fasting for nothing? I don't either want to fast I just don't know where to get this heter from. Anyone?

hi so my rav told me that if your child is 2 and undre no need to fast., only fast you must fast is 9 of av and yom kipur , but then again ask your rav

amother

Coral

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 1:53 pm

amother wrote:

I've seen this too. I worked in a chassidish institution once, and on a fast day everyone was ordering lunch from Spoons like a regular day... complete with iced coffee and pastries... with a completely indifferent attitude. There was no connection to the fast day...

LittleDucky

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 2:13 pm

amother wrote:

So wrong. Even if you don't fast, for whatever reason, you still shouldn't be eating purely pleasurable foods. The reason to not fast doesn't make the day disappear. I was told to break Tisha Bav once (pregnant and sick). I still didn't wear leather shoes, wash myself etc.

Ema of 5

Thu, Oct 06 2016, 2:30 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Clearly you don't know me- I'm not worried at all!! :-) let them nay-say away!!! I just get very perturbed when someone posts (under amother no less!!) some offensive blanket statement, like that which was posted here.