Papers arent talking about Hillary helping Chelsea's friend?

Fox

Sun, Oct 09 2016, 2:15 am

If you read the fine print, you find that much of the analysis relied on "proxy indicators" of racism. And what is a "proxy indicator"? Well, it might be something like, "Do you feel affirmative action policies hurt non-minority workers?" If you answer "yes," then you are statistically assumed to be more racist than someone who says, "no."

This is the kind of dishonesty that a lot of people are fed up with. Yes, it is possible to see affirmative action as problematic without believing one race is superior to another or without behaving in a racist manner.

And, of course, these surveys asked generally about "diversity," but didn't address all the other epithets Clinton included.

As for 4chan being Trump's "base" -- that simply defies arithmetic. Conservative estimates have 4chan users at approximately 8-12 million, of which a sizeable percentage live outside the U.S. Plus, of course, the vast majority of the boards are dedicated to gaming and anime and similar pursuits.

So even if Trump had corralled every neo-Nazi, WoW player, and pervy Sailor Moon devotee, he couldn't get elected dog-catcher. Nor can these denizens of the cyber-basement be considered trend-inspiring "mavens" in any way. In fact, they tend to be anti-mavens. If you read on 4chan that something is cool, you can pretty much assume that it's not.

marina

Sun, Oct 09 2016, 2:31 am

Quote:

Well, you don't have to guess about the questions- they link to them. And as for proxies- that's how covert racism works. If you assess racism simply based whether the responded agrees with the statement Black People Are Bad, you will conclude - inaccurately- that there is no more racism in our country.

In other words, we can only measure racism and bigotry and anti-semitism through proxy indicators. Most people are polite enough to avoid overt bigotry.

Are Jews more likely than others to have a lot of money? <--- proxy for antisemitism, even though practically, that respondent may live in an area where the wealthy Jews live.

Fox

Sun, Oct 09 2016, 2:44 am

marina wrote:

In other words, we can only measure racism and bigotry and anti-semitism through proxy indicators. Most people are polite enough to avoid overt bigotry.

This is where perfect becomes the enemy of good.

Having most people avoid overt bigotry is the goal.

Despite all the nonsense about "you have to be carefully taught" to hate, fear, or otherwise dislike those outside your "tribe," there is considerable evidence that we are hardwired to some degree to prefer and feel more positively about those who are most like us.

It is actually far more likely that what must be "carefully taught" is that bigotry has no place in a civilized society, and you will lose social benefits if you are unable to control whatever natural or cultivated bigotry you possess.

But now it's not enough to "avoid overt bigotry." We must meet the amorphous standard of being bigotry-free in our hearts, too. Well, that's ridiculous. I don't care if someone is really, truly, deep-down-inside bigoted. I care about their actions.

DrMom

Sun, Oct 09 2016, 6:05 am

I don't care so much about her helping out her daughter's friend as I do about:
- Clinton selling US shares of uranium to Russia for her personal profit,
- knowingly ignoring cybersecurity measures and setting up a server in hr bathroom,
- having 13 Blackberry devices containing information so damaging that they were destroyed with hammers,
- that laptop that the FBI allowed her team to destroy,
- her destroying lives of women her husband raped/molested/preyed upon,
- Whitewater,
- being part of an administration which has turned the FBI, the IRS, t
- ripping off poor people in Haiti via the influence-peddling Clinton Foundation,
- being part of an administration which gave $150B to Iran, the world's leading sponsor of terror and a sworn enemy of Israel,
- etc
- etc
- etc.

Trump is a crude boor, but Hillary Clinton is corrupt to the core.

marina

Sun, Oct 09 2016, 3:08 pm

Fox wrote:

The problem is that being deep down bigoted often leads to bigoted actions.

So if I'm an HR director that would never ever say anything remotely inappropriate about blacks or Jews, but I always call back employment candidates named Susie and Bob over LaShonda and Yerachmiel, even when the latter are equally or more qualified, that's an example of covert bigotry that will be difficult to measure through a direct poll ( Hello. Are you racist? No? Okay, that's great.) and yet affects people's lives in serious ways.

marina

Sun, Oct 09 2016, 3:17 pm

Quote:

I didn't find this offensive in the least; it's the humor of hyperbole to make a point about the importance of voting. Sorry, but the people who are offended are either looking for offense or, yes, are literal-minded. Though I think it's insulting to nerds to associate the two.

So I love comedy as much as anyone else. And my favorite comedians are rude and offensive and even crass. But they're not going to be leading my country. They're not going to negotiate sensitive agreements with foreign leaders and improve relationships between warring countries. They're not going to be diplomatic until there's no other choice. They're not going to be deciding whether to go to war and put American young men at fatal risk. They're not going to make decisions that have women and children dying as casualties of war. They're not going to make tough economy-related calls that may affect many American workers.

They're just going to make funny, crass jokes and entertain me.

And just like I don't want my comedians leading the country, so too I don't want my country's leader to be a crass comedian.

marina

Sun, Oct 09 2016, 3:21 pm

Here's a thread about nothing but covert anti Semitism. http://www.imamother.com/forum.....07463

What should we say to this amother? Should we say, "Hey! Just be happy there's no overt anti Semitism and that people aren't calling your husband Kike in the street when he walks to shul! Don't worry about stupid kippas at work!"