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No kippa for interview
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 11:37 am
Sorry to post in this section but I was unsure where else to post.
My husband has been looking for a law job for quite a long time. Thus far he has always worn his kippa as he currently has a frum boss. He has a job interview tomorrow and I was shocked to hear from him that he wasn't intending on wearing a kippa. He said that of all the male religious lawyers in town just about all but three go without a kippa to court/meet with clients. I guess there is leniency since technically it is a minhag. This hurt me a lot. On one hand I don't want him to ruin his chances but on the other hand I feel like how will hashem help him if he doesn't look out for GD. Does that make sense? Should I strongly push and encourage him to wear it? Thoughts?
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 11:50 am
It's not your problem. Let him do things his own way. If he wears one because you nagged and then continues to have difficulty in finding a job, he will blame you for that.
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amother
Bisque


 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 11:59 am
I work in an ER with one other frum employee who is male and wears a kippa. It is a pretty small place so everyone knows about it. There was a frum guy who was applying and took it off for his interview. It is quite obvious when it is missing. The hair doesn't quite look right underneath. And my Indian supervisor asked him where it was. Kinda funny/ironic if you ask me.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 12:07 pm
Your husband is right. My DH is a lawyer and has been denied jobs because of being frum. Let him get the job and then start wearing his kippah if he wants. Also, my DH does not wear his to court, and many many others don't too.
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 12:29 pm
And my husband is also a lawyer and has never ever taken off his kippa for a job interview or while in court. If the firm will have a problem with him being frum then he'd rather find out at the outset.
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cm




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 12:37 pm
It depends.

The person in the professional situation should be the one to make the decision.

Your concern about Gd not helping him doesn't really make sense to me, but perhaps I am missing something.
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 4:52 pm
Seems like opinion is split down the line. I guess I have a very guilty Jewish outlook and fear G-d may not give him the job BECAUSE he didn't wear the kippah. I also think it is weird to go to interview without a kippah and then pop one on once work starts or request accommodating work schedules. I guess I should just tell him he should decide what he needs to do. I believe a wife should encourage growth so that is why I was discussing it with him. I will let him be.
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Lita




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 5:35 pm
My neighbor took off his kippa AND put on a wedding band for an important interview.
He got the job and now has to remember to slip on his ring that he doesn't normally wear.
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amother
Gold


 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 6:56 pm
My husband is a lawyer and has always worn his yarmulka both to court and to job interviews. He laughed when he interned at a judge and sat up front with his yarmulka on his head and in walked in 3 men from our neighborhood for a court case without their yarmulkas. Needless to say, they felt silly. Some firms actually like to hire a diverse population so you never know.
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 7:05 pm
I would advise my husband not to wear a kippah for a job interview unless there was a specific reason to ( such as the boss is frum and wears a kippah). Why ruin his chance to get the job?
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 7:08 pm
amother wrote:
My husband is a lawyer and has always worn his yarmulka both to court and to job interviews. He laughed when he interned at a judge and sat up front with his yarmulka on his head and in walked in 3 men from our neighborhood for a court case without their yarmulkas. Needless to say, they felt silly. Some firms actually like to hire a diverse population so you never know.


I'm happy this worked out for your husband but that doesn't make it good advice. It's hard enough to get a law job that I wouldn't add any extra issues into the picture. If a company is looking at two great employees and one has no work restrictions and the other one has to leave early on Friday and can't work on Saturday and Jewish holidays- who do you think they will choose?
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amother
Khaki


 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 7:48 pm
amother wrote:
Your husband is right. My DH is a lawyer and has been denied jobs because of being frum. Let him get the job and then start wearing his kippah if he wants. Also, my DH does not wear his to court, and many many others don't too.


My husband was clearly told If you interview without a kippa and then wear one after getting a job it is geneivas daas. It's also not a good way to start off a relationship. Don't simply do this without a lot of thought.
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LittleDucky




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 8:35 pm
I have a few relatives in law. One doesn't wear it ever. When outside but "at work" he wears a hat. He comes into the office with a cap and leaves the yalmulkah in the car. He was told by a reputable Rav there is an opinion that being inside "counts". His firm would never had hired a frum yid. They are used to him leaving early on Fridays but still don't like it. He works extra hard to overcompensate and when misses two hours he works 4 etc.

another was hired with a yalmulkah. He works super hard at the job and again, is the only frum yid there. They understand he has to take off but he works chol hamoed, Sundays etc to compensate. But he doesn't go to court typically.

So it just goes to show- it's not up to you whether you get the job. You just have to do your histadlus, ask appropriate shailas and hope for the best! It's all biyidei shomayim!
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Miri7




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 8:47 pm
I'm in law and know many guys who don't wear the kippah to interviews or client meetings. If they know the client or if they have an eatablaished client relationship and the client knows they are a frum Jew then they will wear it to a client meeting. They do wear it around the office.

When asked why they didn't wear it at first, they sometimes say something like, " when I am meeting someone for the first time I don't want to kippa to be all that they see".
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flowerpower




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 9:02 pm
I never heard of removing it for professional purposes. Hashem is everywhere including important interviews. If he brings hashem along, there will be better luck. Those people will respect him more if he is proud of who he is, not if he hides it. It's okay as a wife to encourage him. Hatzlacha to him.
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amother
Cobalt


 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 9:10 pm
flowerpower wrote:
I never heard of removing it for professional purposes. Hashem is everywhere including important interviews. If he brings hashem along, there will be better luck. Those people will respect him more if he is proud of who he is, not if he hides it. It's okay as a wife to encourage him. Hatzlacha to him.


The fact that you never heard of it doesn't make a difference.

In many big law firms, the culture is to go bareheaded, even though everyone knows that you keep shabbos and kosher. It's slightly less common than it used to be, but there are genuinely frum men without anything on their heads.

I found your reference to "those people" off-putting.
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 9:15 pm
I posted upthread that DH always wears his kippa.

I was reading the subsequent posts and realized that I left out a small but crucial detail. My husband has had many years of legal experience, but anyone taking a look at the educational part of his resume prior to law school would quickly realize that they're looking at an Orthodox Jew. DH figures that he wouldn't be kidding anyone by taking off his kippa for an interview and in fact it could count against him because it would look like he's ashamed or weaselly. DH wears his kippa proudly because it's part of who he is, as is his work ethic and honesty and yashrus in life. He's worked many long hours to make up for taking off on Shabbos and Yom Tov and he's never had a problem with anyone taking against him because of religion.
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 9:20 pm
amother wrote:
The fact that you never heard of it doesn't make a difference.

In many big law firms, the culture is to go bareheaded, even though everyone knows that you keep shabbos and kosher. It's slightly less common than it used to be, but there are genuinely frum men without anything on their heads.

I found your reference to "those people" off-putting.


Agree with this.
Many, if not the majority of frum male lawyers and doctors do not wear kippahs at work. This is a fact. It's not halalka that men have to wear a kippah at all times.
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amother
Cobalt


 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 9:27 pm
amother wrote:
I posted upthread that DH always wears his kippa.

I was reading the subsequent posts and realized that I left out a small but crucial detail. My husband has had many years of legal experience, but anyone taking a look at the educational part of his resume prior to law school would quickly realize that they're looking at an Orthodox Jew. DH figures that he wouldn't be kidding anyone by taking off his kippa for an interview and in fact it could count against him because it would look like he's ashamed or weaselly. DH wears his kippa proudly because it's part of who he is, as is his work ethic and honesty and yashrus in life. He's worked many long hours to make up for taking off on Shabbos and Yom Tov and he's never had a problem with anyone taking against him because of religion.


Taking off the kipa for an interview could mean that he's trying to respect the firm's culture, not that he's hiding anything. There is something weaselly about pretending you aren't frum.

Dh once interviewed someone who was clearly religious but trying to pretend otherwise. One line on his resume claimed he had worked as an "exotic fruit importer." Dh said, "so you sold lulavim and esrogim?"

In the end, they didn't hire him. This was a firm with an entrenched culture of frum partners. They were perfectly happy to take on a frum guy. They weren't willing to take on someone who thought he could fool people.
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 09 2016, 9:31 pm
amother wrote:
Seems like opinion is split down the line. I guess I have a very guilty Jewish outlook and fear G-d may not give him the job BECAUSE he didn't wear the kippah. I also think it is weird to go to interview without a kippah and then pop one on once work starts or request accommodating work schedules. I guess I should just tell him he should decide what he needs to do. I believe a wife should encourage growth so that is why I was discussing it with him. I will let him be.


If you are worried about this halakhically then you should learn the halaka.

I think it's smart to not bring up problematic things during the interview stage, whether they are religious, health issues, pregnancy etc. it's common sense to only show your best during the interview process and then bring up accommodations after you get the job. I know that might feel dishonest and weird but It's really just interviewing common sense.

Personally, I don't wear tichels to interviews even though I totally plan to wear them after I get the job. I also don't wear a suit, makeup and heels to work but I do dress the part for the interview.
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