Who said it? | Imamother

SixOfWands

Mon, Oct 10 2016, 6:29 am

Don't google. Just tell us ... who said it.

Quote:

Palestinian leaders need to stop inciting violence, stop celebrating terrorists as martyrs and stop paying rewards to their families.

Quote:

The United States should provide Israel with the most sophisticated defense technology so it can deter and stop any threats. That includes bolstering Israeli missile defenses with new systems like the Arrow Three and David’s Sling. And we should work together to develop better tunnel detection, technology to prevent armed smuggling, kidnapping and terrorist attacks.

Quote:

“If I win, I don’t want to be in a position where I’m saying to you [my choice] and the other side now says, ‘We don’t want []involved .... Let me be sort of a neutral [person].”

Quote:

Particularly at a time when anti-Semitism is on the rise across the world, especially in Europe, we must repudiate all efforts to malign, isolate and undermine Israel and the Jewish people. I’ve been sounding the alarm for a while now. As I wrote last year in a letter to the heads of major American Jewish organizations, we have to be united in fighting back against BDS. Many of its proponents have demonized Israeli scientists and intellectuals, even students. To all the college students who may have encountered this on campus, I hope you stay strong. Keep speaking out. Don’t let anyone silence you, bully you or try to shut down debate, especially in places of learning like colleges and universities.

Quote:

It’s probably the hardest negotiation there is – great negotiators have tried and they failed .... It’s just so deep-seeded – the hatred, the level of distrust – but I’m going to give it an awfully good shot. I want to remain as neutral as possible because, if you’re not somewhat neutral, the other side is never going to do it. But just remember, Israel, I love you. We’re going to see if we can get something done. It has to be done for both sides. It cannot continue to be the way it is.

[with respect to 2014 war in Gaza]

Quote:

“I have said publicly – and I believe it – that Hamas provoked Israel in order to actually cause what we are now seeing,”

SixOfWands

Mon, Oct 10 2016, 10:50 am

Fox wrote:

Quote:

“f—– Jew b——” [UPI, 17 July 2000]

To quote my dear 83-year-old mother, Trump and his hot mic may be loathesome, but it didn't cause Clinton didn't learn any new words.

Very misleading.

The alleged quote is not from 2000. It's from 1974, but published in a book in 2000. And Clinton denies saying it. http://dailycaller.com/2016/07.....tard/

42 years ago. When she was 27 (clearly old enough to know better, if its true. But not the 50-something Trump that people are trying to excuse.) You really had to dig deep for that one.

I don't need to go very far to talk about Trump's retweeting of anti-semitic materials. Or his wife's response to virulently disgusting antisemitic responses to a Jewish reporter who published a piece on her, "“I don’t control my fans ... but I don’t agree with what they’re doing. I understand what you mean, but there are people out there who maybe went too far. She provoked them.” Or stereotyping Jews "I'm a negotiator. Like you folks."

You're not troubled by the virulent antisemitism of so many Trump supporters?

Fox

Mon, Oct 10 2016, 12:31 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Agreed, but it's highly consistent with reports about her treatment of Secret Service agents and other security and operations staff. This one happened to have a Jewish slant, but Clinton's inappropriate and vulgar language have been well-documented over the years, primarily by security officers.

SixOfWands wrote:

I don't need to go very far to talk about Trump's retweeting of anti-semitic materials. Or his wife's response to virulently disgusting antisemitic responses to a Jewish reporter who published a piece on her, "“I don’t control my fans ... but I don’t agree with what they’re doing. I understand what you mean, but there are people out there who maybe went too far. She provoked them.” Or stereotyping Jews "I'm a negotiator. Like you folks."

You're not troubled by the virulent antisemitism of so many Trump supporters?

I am far, far more troubled by the anti-Semitism that characterizes the progressive left and goes almost unremarked by the Democratic Party.

At a recent Trump rally, a Holocaust denier who was attempting to give an interview to journalists was shouted down by other Trump supporters. We haven't seen Clinton supporters publicly call out those who burn the Israeli flag, for example.

Now, am I comfortable with anti-Semitic loons supporting Trump? Of course not. Do I wish Trump would denounce them more ferociously? Absolutely. But I don't see Clinton disavowing her anti-Semitic supporters either, so it's a wash.

And I am much more frightened of the anti-Semitism that has infested the campuses of competitive and even second-tier colleges. I am less disturbed by Arthur Angell's photoshopping efforts than I am when I hear that, for example, a student has been deemed unqualified by a student government role because of her "divided loyalties" as a Jew.

The Amcha Initiative calculated that anti-Semitic incidents on American campuses were up 45 percent from 2014 to 2015. Bad enough. But they are up 64 percent in 2016. And it's not Trump supporters encouraging bigotry:

Quote:

Anti-Semitic activity “was twice as likely to occur on campuses where BDS [the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions campaign] was present, eight times more likely to occur on campuses with at least one active anti-Zionist student group such as SJP [Students for Justice in Palestine], and six times more likely to occur on campuses with one or more faculty boycotters,”

Students who are exposed to sanctioned anti-Semitism will be the ones in leadership roles in 25 years. I don't believe that Trump will be able to single-handedly stop these excesses, but I believe the progressive left has been complicit, and the Democratic Party has gone along.

SixOfWands

Mon, Oct 10 2016, 1:08 pm

Fox wrote:

SixOfWands wrote:

Very misleading.

The alleged quote is not from 2000. It's from 1974, but published in a book in 2000. And Clinton denies saying it. http://dailycaller.com/2016/07.....w-bastard/

42 years ago. When she was 27 (clearly old enough to know better, if its true. But not the 50-something Trump that people are trying to excuse.) You really had to dig deep for that one.

Well, nice to see that you agree that you're being misleading!

I'm not troubled by Trump's course language. I'm troubled by its content. He stated that he grabbed women in the groin. Kissed them without permission. And boasted that he could do so because of his wealth and position.

Its rape culture. And it would have been reprehensible in the finest, most literary terms.

Had he used the same words in other contexts -- he loved his wife's [groin], or even random consenting women's [groins], I wouldn't have cared.

SixOfWands wrote:

Fox wrote:

:
I don't need to go very far to talk about Trump's retweeting of anti-semitic materials. Or his wife's response to virulently disgusting antisemitic responses to a Jewish reporter who published a piece on her, "“I don’t control my fans ... but I don’t agree with what they’re doing. I understand what you mean, but there are people out there who maybe went too far. She provoked them.” Or stereotyping Jews "I'm a negotiator. Like you folks."

You're not troubled by the virulent antisemitism of so many Trump supporters?

Again, you play fast and loose with the facts, conflating the actions of random people with the positions of Hilary Clinton.

Bernie Sanders supporters burned an Israeli flag, while Clinton supporters ensured the placement of anti-BDS language in the Democratic platform. But you urge us to vote for Trump because, hey, one Democrat is the same as another.

You blame Clinton for political correctness run amok on campuses, without any link between her and that foolishness. Yet you'd scream bloody murder were I to attribute David Duke, an actual Trump supporter, to Trump.

Has Trump condemned the RNC live tweet of anti-semitic comments at the convention?

Has he denounced David Duke?

When Wolf Blitzer confronted Trump about the attacks on Ioffe, which included horrifying Holocaust imagery and death threats and which were the direct result of Trump’s displeasure about a piece she wrote about his wife, Trump refused to take the opportunity to denounce the attacks. Instead, he stated that he doesn’t “have a message to the fans,” and, adding insult to injury, turned the attacks back on Ioffe and the “inaccuracy” of her article. And the alt.right has publicly stated that they view this as an endorsement, which Trump has not corrected.

You claim that the same is true of Clinton, but I have found no evidence of it. You sound like Trump -- other people say the same thing. No evidence.

And its not just antisemitism. Trump's racist comments are disgusting.

Fox

Mon, Oct 10 2016, 2:18 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Its rape culture. And it would have been reprehensible in the finest, most literary terms.

"Rape culture" exists in India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc.

For North American women to claim "rape culture" is a vile attempt at victimhood-by-association.

"Rape culture" is not having a pervy guy grab you in a personal region and being understandably shaken and scared. It's being stoned to death because you were raped. It's being killed by your brother because you were raped and you therefore "dishonored" the family. It's having known gangs of rapists attacking women on public transportation.

Any rape is one too many, and pervy gropers (including Trump, if he was stupid enough to actually do it) should be prosecuted (after being kicked, punched, or similarly discouraged).

Attempting to portray North America as having a "rape culture" is a misogynistic lie that is designed to undo all the achievements of equity feminism.

Now, back to the election:

I'm a little confused by your points. You asked me if I'm concerned about "virulent" anti-Semitism among Trump supporters. I answered, and I explained why I find left-wing anti-Semitism to be more concerning.

You're free to disagree with that analysis, but I'm not sure how to respond to the argument that, in your opinion, the right-wing is worse. Okay. Fine. I can certainly understand why someone might feel that way, and I'm even willing to admit that I'm probably over-sensitized to the dangers of left-wing excesses simply because of my personal background.

While the abuse Ms. Ioffe was subjected to is obviously awful and inexcusable, it frankly sounds pretty run-of-the-mill. That kind of thing coming from leftists is regularly re-tweeted by people like Christina Hoff Sommers, Kassy Dillon, Sonnie Johnson, Michelle Malkin, et. al., along with reports of the dead animals they receive in the mail. Newsweek's Joel Klein has acknowledged that conservative women are targeted both more often and more aggressively than other quasi-public figures.

Neither Clinton nor Sanders took supporters to task for such actions, and I wouldn't expect them to do so. Not only must you avoid feeding the trolls, you have to make sure you can't leave food out where they can get it. After law enforcement, the most effective way to shut them down is to ignore them.

SixOfWands

Mon, Oct 10 2016, 2:35 pm

Fox wrote:

Rape Culture is an environment in which rape is prevalent and in which s-xual violence against women is normalized and excused in the media and popular culture. Rape culture is when a man who is running to be president of the United States claims that by dint of his wealth and position he has the right to place his hand on the v2gina of any woman he wants.

The abuse of Ioffe was far from "run of the mill." Or at least not any mill in which I've run. And its far beyond a failure to condemn the actions of a wingnuts. She received calls from people playing Hitler speeches, was told that she “should be burned in an oven,” “be shot in the head,” and was sent photoshopped images of her in a concentration camp uniform. And Trump did respond. Melania Trump (about whom Ioffe had written) stated that Trump's supporters had gone too far, but "She [Ioffe] provoked them." When Trump himself was asked about the death threats made to Ioffe, he stated, "“I don’t have a message to the fans ... A woman wrote an article that’s inaccurate.” The longer account:

Quote:

Yet Blitzer pressed Trump, “But the anti-Semitic death threats that have followed...” Trump interrupted, “Oh, I don't know about that. I don't know anything about that. You mean fans of mine?”

Blitzer responded, “Supposed fans of posting these very angry—but your message to these fans is?”

This is the moment at which Trump should’ve clearly condemned the anti-Semitic comments. And if Trump were a true leader, he would’ve encouraged his “fans” to stop spewing such hate.

But he didn’t. Instead Trump responded: “I don’t have a message to the fans.” And then, astoundingly, he attacked Ioffe again. “A woman wrote an article that’s inaccurate.”

But I'm done. You don't really care about Trump's positions, or Clinton's. You've made up your mind, and facts are obviously irrelevant to you.

Fox

Mon, Oct 10 2016, 3:14 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

But I'm done. You don't really care about Trump's positions, or Clinton's. You've made up your mind, and facts are obviously irrelevant to you.

This is the familiar fallback position of the regressive left: "If you don't see things the way I do, then you don't care" and/or "If you reach a different conclusion than I did, it's because you didn't examine the facts."

It should be possible for people to discuss important topics, even passionately. It should be okay for them to argue their views, even forcefully. Communicating about important ideas isn't a zero-sum game; if you don't convert me to your viewpoint, it doesn't mean that you didn't have an impact on my thinking, and vice versa. That's why we still teach Hegel.

SixOfWands wrote:

Yes, I know how rape culture is defined by those who apparently want to return to a time when women had few rights and little agency over their own lives. There are plenty of places where rape culture is a genuine problem. North America is not one of them by any measure.

Too many women fought too long and hard in the 60s and 70s to give women the choices and freedom we have today. Their message was simple, "You are powerful. You have a choice. If some guy thinks he has the right to touch you without your consent, look him in the eye and tell him to stop. And if he doesn't, kick him in the !@#$!"

SixOfWands

Mon, Oct 10 2016, 3:24 pm

Fox wrote:

Except, of course, you snipped my position, ignored the facts I stated, and then launched a baseless ad hominem attack on the "regressive left."

Proving, of course, that you don't care about facts.

Not to mention how you have repeatedly dismissed facts about Clinton and her positions, because you believe that some unknown leftists will co-opt her actual positions. Eg, BDS. Again, amply demonstrating that you don't care about facts.

Its possible to discuss facts. Just not with someone who doesn't care about them.

SixOfWands

Mon, Oct 10 2016, 3:37 pm

Fox wrote:

Oh, I understand now!

Women who demand to be treated as equals, who don't think that any man has the right to stick his hand up her skirts and grope her, or kiss her, just because he's rich, those women are subservient. Because no strong woman would ever demand that men act and treat her with respect. No strong woman would ever demand that men not view women as their concubines, always available for their pleasure.

And if a woman is raped, its her fault. Because if she really were a strong powerful woman, she'd look him in the eye and kick him in the balls.

Disgusting.