The girls who struggled most in class- what r they up to?

seeker

Sun, Oct 16 2016, 11:18 am

amother wrote:

It's a nice story, but factually inaccurate. Why is it so hard to accept that in general terms, overall, the students that did well in high school probably went to better colleges and probably have better paying jobs? Do you really believe there is no correlation between doing well in high school and getting a better job? Even more so, you're trying to argue that there is a correlation between doing poorly and then becoming financially successful. Ridiculous!

I do not think there is a correlation between doing poorly and becoming financially successful, but I do believe studies have shown that there is no or weak correlation between doing well in school and becoming financially successful. In various areas of life, social-emotional skills have been shown to trump academic-intellectual skills as a predictor of success.

I also think that it makes sense (and possibly has been studied but I can't vouch for it) that those who did best in school tend to be in-the-box thinkers and rule-followers, while those who are most successful at business are creative and not risk averse (though that's only business; some can do quite well in law or medicine or other high-paying fields with academic smarts. Though probably a lawyer with great business sense does better than one who plays by the books.)

As for going to better colleges, right now the only thing that correlates with is higher student debt.

My guess would be that, over the broader population, the group of those who were somewhere in middle of the class probably is more successful as a whole than the group of those who were at the top of their respective classes.

gold21

Sun, Oct 16 2016, 1:07 pm

seeker wrote:

I agree. Not that I myself am such a success professionally, lol, (I have put family before career) but I agree that out of the box thinkers can be more successful than rule followers. With that said, there are some very intelligent top-of-the-class types that are out of the box thinkers too. I think people like that are best primed for success. Brains + out of box thinking process= amazing combination professionally. I know someone like that and yes she KA"H is a total genius and success B"H!!

Last edited by gold21 on Sun, Oct 16 2016, 1:14 pm; edited 3 times in total

byisrael

Mon, Oct 17 2016, 5:19 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

It's a very popular trope on imamother. You don't need to do well in school/go to college since you can just start a business and get rich. Sure, some people can. But my upper middle class/upper class neighborhood is filled with people with high level degrees.

You seem unfamiliar with any of the extensive research that shows that EQ is the quotient that determines success not only financially, but in relationships as well. Read "Emotional Intelligence" by Daniel Goleman as a starter.
It may be true that your neighborhood is full of people with high level degrees but research shows that the reason that DID make it financially compared to their peers with the same degrees (the Bernie Sanders supporters who are saddled with college debt and are moving in with their parents) is EQ.
As a frum person I believe that Siyata Dishmaya is a big part of financial success but you gotta have certain level of emuna to believe that, not expecting many imamothers to go for that theory....

Tablepoetry

Mon, Oct 17 2016, 5:36 pm

amother wrote:

Two most socially awkward and not smart people in my class both got married. One married an extreamly wealthy businessman at age 22 and goes traveling the world. She's a SAHM and loves her kids. The other one married another socially awkward not so smart son of a rosh yeshiva at age 26. Incredible.

Although marrying someone specific certainly influences your finances, status and so on, I wouldn't include it in the measure of 'how successful someone is'. For some reason it makes me uncomfortable (perhaps for the same reason the term 'rebbetzin' makes me uncomfortable - a title earned just because you married the rabbi).

The women above might have married so well (or what you consider to be well) because they have great personalities, or because they are gorgeous, or they have money...who knows....and certainly they got lucky, to marry 'well'...but I wouldn't term it 'successful'. More like life smiled upon them.

amother

Mustard

Tue, Oct 18 2016, 3:10 pm

I struggled the terribly in class all my years of school.
I had social problems, ADD, and learning disabilities. On top of that my parents were neglectful and very poor.
I defined the word misfit.
now BH things are GREAT.
I have a wonderful husband. Great kids
I moved to the other side of the world. I did a lot of work on myself.
I run a tzedaka organization and am able to give people what I never had.
I am respected in my community and am able to help people all the time.
things are awesome!
That is what I am up to
Cool

sequoia

Tue, Oct 18 2016, 8:25 pm

amother wrote:

That's wonderful! Wave

JAWSCIENCE

Tue, Oct 18 2016, 9:50 pm

All of these threads are a little bizarre. Success seems to be defined by how much money people are making. Is that really a Jewish value and what we aspire to? Why not ask if the girls in the top/middle/lower academic rungs of the class are able to achieve their life goals or if they are happy contributing members of society?

Plenty of rich people are miserable. Plenty of poor people are miserable. People of all wealth levels feel alienated from society or unfulfilled. Why do we care so much how wealthy people are and view this as success/something to aspire to? I don't care if my kids are rich. I do care if they are happy and able to contribute to society and form meaningful social relationships. I'd like for them to be able to afford life but I see no pressure for them (or me) to have millions to waste and tour the world in high style.

amother

Gold

Tue, Oct 18 2016, 11:22 pm

There is something that a lot of you are forgetting. Hashem decides who will be making a lot of money and who wont. I am specifically talking about if there are two people with the same profession. One can be making a lot of money while the other may be going bankrupt or just making do.

Example, I know accountants who are struggling while others are really rich. There are people who started businesses that are doing really well and are rich while other business owners are struggling.

It is not that hard to get a college degree even for those that struggled in school. College does not necessarily teach all the skills for that profession such that even those who dont do well in college can then climb the ladder in their profession.

imagine two people qualified for a promotion, but only one position. If both are qualified, well, hashem decides who will get the promotion and make more money!!

When I was struggling to pay for things, I thought of this. There are lawyers who started their own firm and are not making any money. While other lawyers are successful. So too, with dentists etc. Yes, some people may have done well in dental school or law school but may not be good in the profession but in general, the actual success and how much money is decided by hashem!!

While I may have originally thought that those who did not do well in school, will not be able to make it"" in college etc. But, I know I misjudged. A lot of these girls ended up pushing themselves a lot harder in college (some asked me for help) and especially in their jobs after that!! But, "at the end of the day", I find that being good at most professions has nothing to do with what was learned in college and how good your grades were!!

amother

Lavender

Tue, Oct 18 2016, 11:47 pm

amother wrote:

Hashem runs the world b'derech hatevah. That's why Harvard lawyers make more than other lawyers and doctors, dentists and lawyers generally make more than school teachers, postal workers and bus drivers. Of course hashem runs the world and can do whatever he wants, but since he runs it b'teva, I would imagine the 10 wealthiest people you knew last year are all wealthy again this year. The people that were struggling with a particular problem last year, likely have the same situation again. Often the best students in h.s. are the brightest, have a strong work ethic, are ambitious and have other successful traits that help later in life. Of course there are many exceptions, but from the responses on this thread one would think that doing well in h.s. won't help to move onto other successful career opportunities. I think this thread is not indicative and very misleading. I'd like to meet the mother who truly doesn't care when their child is flunking school. If the responses in this thread were an accurate depiction of how life progresses post h.s., there would really be no reason to care.

Tablepoetry

Wed, Oct 19 2016, 3:14 am

amother wrote:

This. Of course a person can be happy and productive without being a good student. And of course a weak student can marry someone higher up the socio-economic ladder. And of course a successful life does not equate financial success.
However, in the context of this thread, I understand 'successful' to be thriving career wise and financially stable. Because otherwise whats the connection to school grades? I really doubt anyone thinks weak students have worse marriages. Or are bad mothers. Or contribute less to society.
But weak students have a more challenging path ahead career wise. Some will succeed at business but that requires its own special set of skills. And as most of us don't have those skills, most parents are eager for their kids to get a good education.
(Of course a good education is important in a broad sense too....but thats another discussion).