I told them not to come back and stuck with it

amother

Yellow

Wed, Oct 26 2016, 12:26 am

Last year I had one family of guests whose children ran around touching everything and breaking things. I told the parents to make other plans for this year. They still asked to come for Havdala but we said no. I wasn't worried about the five minutes in the succa. I was worried that next year they would expect to come to me for the whole succos again. Anyone else with this problem?

amother

Babypink

Wed, Oct 26 2016, 12:56 am

you're proud of yourself for telling a family they can't come for havdallah?

I understand not inviting them back for a meal after last year's experience, but if someone asks to come for havdallah it usually means they are genuinely in need.

ETA: If it's only once a year, I would suck it up even for the meal. Every shabbos I can understand not wanting, but once a year? Come on.

amother

Yellow

Wed, Oct 26 2016, 1:01 am

amother wrote:

The shul is on the corner of our block and has a public succa. We are three houses closer than the shul. Their youngest children are all walking. In this case we would have saved them three minutes of walking. If they were in genuine need then we would have had them over.

The mother doesn't discipline their children at all. There were a few things that were broken that cost money to replace. Hiring a cleaning lady doesn't replace the stuff that were broken. The shul succa is just three houses down from us. I did not feel that we need to suffer losses to save them three minutes of walking.

amother

Mustard

Wed, Oct 26 2016, 1:09 am

Ok. Those parents are responsible to pay for damages their children did. It doesnt sound like they have.
Personally I noticed that at a single meal or party with children, a whole bunch of physical damage is often done. My kids on the other hand know how to treat the house, so for months/years nothing happens, and then the floor/windows etc are trashed in a single event. It is frustrating.

MitzadSheini

Wed, Oct 26 2016, 1:12 am

I have had horrendous guests. On occasion my kids have been not the best guests either (we paid for damage caused for shalom, although to be honest the host's kids were also culpable.) I suppose my biggest question is "why did you feel the need to start this thread?" Add mustard may Hashem continue to bless you with such wonderful kids.

DrMom

Wed, Oct 26 2016, 1:23 am

I actually think Sukkot is the best time of year to invite such families (and I know the types of families you mean).

There's a lot less to break in a sukkah than in your home.

And if your sukkah is on the ground floor, you can give the kids permission to excuse themselves and play outside.

seeker

Wed, Oct 26 2016, 1:47 am

DrMom wrote:

I was thinking of saying this but then I thought "what if it rains?" lol.

Were they asking to come for havdala because they wanted to use your sukkah or because they needed someone to make havdalah for them? If the sukkah was the issue then it does sound like they're taking advantage if the shul is right nearby, but it's unclear to me whether these people were looking for a sukkah or for friends.

octopus

Wed, Oct 26 2016, 1:55 am

It is your right to have or not to have guests. As long as it is done in a non-humiliating way, it is okay to turn down company even if it is just for havdalah.

moonstone

Wed, Oct 26 2016, 2:53 am

amother wrote:

The mitzva of Hachnosas Orchim is not meant to be easy - so you take some cleaning help when they leave

I assume you'll be paying for OP's cleaning help?

amother

Firebrick

Wed, Oct 26 2016, 3:23 am

I told dh not to invite a certain person to our table even though he is his friend. He dosent talk nice, for example when he was married he said in front of my kids that hes going to go hook up with the hookers. Aslo told him not to let another couple over cause they have no boundaries. She would talk to my dh about her infertility problem on the phone for 45 mins, and this was what she would talk about with me the minute I met her.

amother

Periwinkle

Wed, Oct 26 2016, 3:32 am

Good for you! Why add stress to your yom tov? And add to the already high cost of yom tov! If you want to do the mitzva of inviting guests, go ahead and invite people who won't break things and will keep an eye on their children. It's not your responsibility to have these specific people over. I don't understand why people are judging you!

imasinger

Wed, Oct 26 2016, 5:27 am

I see no reason to assume that OP doesn't practice hachnassas orchim.

Sometimes, some people rub you the wrong way. It's only sensible to set limits with those folks, before your irritation affects your comfort with having guests altogether.

A kind solution might have been to offer to take a chol hamoed trip to a park or other neutral spot. That can soften the rejection.

That being said, one gentle thought about the longer term.

In the blink of an eye, yesterday's little horrors can grow into today's delightful teens or adults. A few years ago, I attended the wedding of one of the sweetest and best behaved girls I had taught 15 years prior, to one of the class terrors in that same year. In the interim, he grew up, and had become a responsible, charming young man.

amother

Olive

Wed, Oct 26 2016, 6:10 am

In my opinion, there's nothing terrible about saying no AS LONG AS ITS SAID NICELY.
I have a friend who literally whenever she talks to you, you can hear the smile in her voice, there's no doubt she likes me (and everyone!) - and sometimes I walk away from encounters and think 'if that was anyone else, I probably would have been offended! or annoyed!' but I think she's lovely!

amother

Aquamarine

Wed, Oct 26 2016, 10:48 am

I understand that it was too much for you to have them for meals, but I think it's really wierd to not allow a neighbour to join you for havdalah.

amother

Denim

Wed, Oct 26 2016, 10:54 am

Op, what I understood from your post is that you are struggling with boundary setting in certain areas, and you were successful in saying no this Yom tov.

congratulations! Happy Birthday

The other posters are pointing out nuances that you can work on in the future if you chose to (say yes to havdalah in the sukkah,etc).

The fact that you can put yourself and your family first is awesome! I am so proud of you. Your children will grow up in a home where mom puts herself and her family first. This is so important!

I'm working toward the same goal myself.

Chayalle

Wed, Oct 26 2016, 11:07 am

I think everyone has differences when it comes to setting boundaries. For some people, they can say no to someone that they feel they cannot host (for meals, for staying, etc...) and the minute they let them in the door (like for Havdalah) it becomes an issue where that person will badger them the next time, and they will not be able to say no. And others are able to say, I can't host them for meals anymore, but I can say yes to Havdalah, and even if they drive me nuts, I will be able to say no gracefully and not get too deep into something that doesn't work for me or my family.

I've hosted alot of company over the years, and DH and I reached an agreement where if a guest makes any member of our family uncomfortable - for a host of reasons - we don't host them anymore. (there has been some exceptions with close family, and lots of workaround there.....) They might be pitiful and it might be a big zchus, but raising a healthy family is a priority for me, and I won't do mitzvos at my family's expense.