Paying the Rebbi | Imamother

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Nov 06 2016, 2:14 pm

Ds is 12 and he's in an amazing Cheider. We are very happy with his new rebbi's and he's doing very well b"h.
His morning rebbi has a rule that whoever comes late pays him 1$ and whoever has to use the toilet in middle of class pays 50c.
Today ds was desperate to use the toilet so tomorrow he has to give 50c to his rebbi. The money is not an issue. I just don't like the idea of parent having to pay for their child using tre toilet.
Just want your opinions.
Btw he says that some boys bring money to Cheider for in case they'll need it.

seeker

Sun, Nov 06 2016, 2:19 pm

The point is to make the kids think twice instead of using the bathroom as an excuse to run out of class all the time. It's definitely a worthy idea but would probably be better if he used some internal currency rather than money. For example each child could get a certain amount of tickets at the beginning of the week, give up one for each bathroom visit, and there's a raffle using the remaining tickets. Or something like that.

amother

Gray

Sun, Nov 06 2016, 2:38 pm

The late fee, I agree with.
The bathroom fee, not so much.
At 12 kids do take advantage, and I see where this rebbi is coming from.
But there is also a halachic issue with waiting to go to the bathroom.
Maybe speak to the rebbi, perhaps charging the student after the second time he goes to the bathroom.

doctorima

Sun, Nov 06 2016, 2:45 pm

I've never heard of such a thing, and it sounds very, very off, possibly even illegel! Having to pay money to go to the bathroom!? Where are you located? I can't imagine such a system flying in the US, unless perhaps a very chassidishe cheder? Is this cheder affiliated with a specific group? Have you had this with other grades in this school, or is this the only Rebbe with such an arrangement? Is the hanhala aware of it, and are they okay with it?

SixOfWands

Sun, Nov 06 2016, 3:02 pm

amother wrote:

Using the restroom when and as needed is a basic human function and dignity. No child should be charged, or penalized, for that.

If the school feels that kids are taking advantage of restroom breaks, then perhaps they should hire monitors to ensure that the kids use the facilities and return to class immediately.

In any case, you're paying, not the child, so how is this helping anything.

I'd contact the rebbe, and refuse to go along with this. Either that, or I'd hand him a $20 and say "here you go, now my kid can use the restroom whenever he needs."

seeker

Sun, Nov 06 2016, 3:02 pm

I totally get why this sounds bizarre but you really need to spend more time in schools. Excessive bathroom breaks are a really tricky issue. You can't stop kids from going to the bathroom because what if it really is an emergency? But you need to really motivate them to go during breaks and not leave the classroom unless they really need to. I agree that money is a little tacky but I don't think it's the end of the world. It would make more sense to give the kids a certain number of free passes before invoking the fee.

OP says the kids are 12. By this age they should have at least some of their own money. So the parents' financial status should have nothing to do with this. Nobody is going to have accidents because they're underprivileged. At 12, if you're that desperate, you can make the judgment call to spend the 50 cents.

I had a teacher who fined a quarter if you didn't do your homework. The money was donated to the school library. Nobody was scarred by this policy. Not one parent objected BECAUSE THIS WAS 20 YEARS AGO when people didn't get so kerfuffled over things like this. I was a regular homework delinquent but I also had a few babysitting jobs, chanukah gelt, etc. I made a calculated decision that I would prefer to "donate" about $10 and not bother with homework. This decision frustrated most adults in my life and was considered an abuse of the system but as an early adolescent it was very empowering. Also, I was an anomaly, most kids just were more compelled to actually do the homework.

5*Mom

Sun, Nov 06 2016, 3:02 pm

There is nothing about this that is appropriate, not even the late fee and certainly not the bathroom fee! I guarantee you there are at least a handful of kids who now have bathroom anxiety, fearing that they will have to go and not have money to pay the rebbe. This is also humiliating! What kind of cheder is this? Does the hanhala know about this?

Yes, teaching 12 yo boys can be challenging but a properly good rebbe would work on building his relationship with the boys while accepting that some boys are on occasion going to take advantage, instead of resorting to bathroom extortion!

SixOfWands

Sun, Nov 06 2016, 3:05 pm

seeker wrote:

You can choose whether or not to do your homework. You cannot choose when you need to use the restroom.

ra_mom

Sun, Nov 06 2016, 3:09 pm

Thanks for bringing up this topic.
My daughter's teacher only allows one girl in the class to go to the bathroom during the 2 Hebrew periods. The overall school policy is only one girl allowed out at a time, and when the bathroom pass comes back, the next girl may go.
But now there's a new rule during recess break that the pass must be used during recess too, so that means one girl at a time during the 15 minute break. How many girls do you think get to use the bathroom during that time? 3?
How would you guys approach this? I don't want to call the teacher as she has a reputation for being unreasonable and thinking of calling the grade supervisor / principal.

Last edited by ra_mom on Sun, Nov 06 2016, 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Smokey

Sun, Nov 06 2016, 3:09 pm

As a kid I had a hard time with this. When I needed to go, I needed to go right away, or...
Teachers hated when kids asked to leave, and sometimes said no for no reason, or said wait for the first kid to come back but I couldn't wait.
So my mother told me to just get up and go if I needed . Without making an issue of it. The teachers learned to deal with it.
I also eventually learned to use each recess break for bathroom.

5mom

Sun, Nov 06 2016, 3:10 pm

seeker wrote:

I understand that these are small sums and the boys won't have trouble paying. What's disturbing is the idea that everything is for sale.

5*Mom

Sun, Nov 06 2016, 3:11 pm

seeker wrote:

This decision frustrated most adults in my life and was considered an abuse of the system but as an early adolescent it was very empowering.

I hear your point and it's an interesting perspective on the situation you describe, but this hardly applies in the case of a fee for a natural and necessary bodily function. You can't always schedule your need for the bathroom. This kind of attempt to control people by regulating their most basic bodily function would never fly in the adult world and for good reason.

pizza4

Sun, Nov 06 2016, 3:14 pm

ra_mom wrote:

I'd speak to the teacher first to be sure the details are correct, and then take it up with the principal. This is so crazy. Kids aren't always able to regulate their need for the bathroom as adults might.