Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Interesting Discussions
Who are frum people are told to vote by the gedolim?
Previous  1  2



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother
Black


 

Post Tue, Nov 08 2016, 7:19 pm
I'm op. I'm not a troll. I'm not trying to open a debate. When I wrote it I realized that it wasn't "politically correct" in the way I wrote it. I was too tired to phrase it "right" and didn't bother to be politically correct (especially that I'm anon).
We ask our rabbis everything as what are we allowed to eat or when to be intimate. We ask about parenting and everything. We can ask about voting. We don't ask the rabbis as people. We ask daas Tora. It is the Tora that we are asking and they learned it and therefore they are answering according to daas Tora.
Back to top

MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 08 2016, 7:26 pm
amother wrote:
I have been out of touch with the frum world lately. I'm not sure. My elementary school daughter told me it's trump?


I would be appalled if I had a teacher telling my elementary school child who her parents were supposed to vote for.
Back to top

amother
Black


 

Post Tue, Nov 08 2016, 7:35 pm
MagentaYenta wrote:
I would be appalled if I had a teacher telling my elementary school child who her parents were supposed to vote for.

She didn't tell her what to vote. My daughter is 12. She told me everybody is voting trump.
Back to top

amother
Hotpink


 

Post Tue, Nov 08 2016, 7:35 pm
amother wrote:

We ask our rabbis everything as what are we allowed to eat or when to be intimate. We ask about parenting and everything. We can ask about voting. We don't ask the rabbis as people. We ask daas Tora. It is the Tora that we are asking and they learned it and therefore they are answering according to daas Tora.


I was brought up in a very, very yeshivish home. My father is a rabbi and still learns in kollel. My grandfather is a posek and rosh kollel.

And what I learned about daas Torah was so, so different. We asked shailos - for halacha. Yes, we could ask for an eitzah tovah, but we were expected and trusted to use our seichel to make our own decisions.

I think this whole business of daas Torah as is today in the rw world has seeped in from the chassidish world, and I find it very sad. Hashem gave you a brain. Use it. It's you who has to make your decisions, not your rabbi. You are not meant to be a robot or blindly follow someone else all the time, no matter how great they are. It's' you, your struggles, your decisions, your choices, that shape you and make you. If you leave it all up to your rav - where's all the spiritual mileage and character development you are meant to be developing as you make your decisions and choices in life?
Back to top

MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 08 2016, 7:41 pm
amother wrote:
She didn't tell her what to vote. My daughter is 12. She told me everybody is voting trump.


Where did she get that from?
Back to top

amother
Black


 

Post Tue, Nov 08 2016, 9:10 pm
amother wrote:
I was brought up in a very, very yeshivish home. My father is a rabbi and still learns in kollel. My grandfather is a posek and rosh kollel.

And what I learned about daas Torah was so, so different. We asked shailos - for halacha. Yes, we could ask for an eitzah tovah, but we were expected and trusted to use our seichel to make our own decisions.

I think this whole business of daas Torah as is today in the rw world has seeped in from the chassidish world, and I find it very sad. Hashem gave you a brain. Use it. It's you who has to make your decisions, not your rabbi. You are not meant to be a robot or blindly follow someone else all the time, no matter how great they are. It's' you, your struggles, your decisions, your choices, that shape you and make you. If you leave it all up to your rav - where's all the spiritual mileage and character development you are meant to be developing as you make your decisions and choices in life?

You can think and make your decisions but there is nothing bad to hear daas Tora. You don't have to follow but you hear what the rabbis say. You still make your own decisions
Back to top

Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 09 2016, 6:01 am
My parents' lite MO community was told lol, when it was the elections.
But it isn't an order just "we should". People do what they will.
Back to top

PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 09 2016, 6:04 am
amother wrote:
I'm op. I'm not a troll. I'm not trying to open a debate. When I wrote it I realized that it wasn't "politically correct" in the way I wrote it. I was too tired to phrase it "right" and didn't bother to be politically correct (especially that I'm anon).
We ask our rabbis everything as what are we allowed to eat or when to be intimate. We ask about parenting and everything. We can ask about voting. We don't ask the rabbis as people. We ask daas Tora. It is the Tora that we are asking and they learned it and therefore they are answering according to daas Tora.


I "liked" your post because I appreciate your getting back and I agree, it is reasonable to consult with daas Torah. The thing is, if you have access to the weeklies (you know, the ones that are breathing a collective sigh of relief because they don't have to deal with the Hillary as president picture issue Wink ) you will see such a wide variety of approaches, all in accordance with daas Torah. Eytan Kobre said something that resonated with me and that is according to his (unnamed, I'll get back to that in a minute) daas Torah, 2 people he spoke to in fact, he couldn't vote for either one in good conscience.

OTOH, if you read last week's weekly Hamodia editorials, they were thoughtful and I could hear them too. Voting per se, according to their views, would NOT diminish us or tar us with the same brush and we should exercise our right in this malchus shel chessed.

So saying this is daas Torah would be disingenuous, and thinking people truly worthy of our respect had differing opinions. And think of the first yekum purkan: we daven for and protect the dignity of our leaders. The last thing we should do is drag them into this morass by saying Rav Ploni shlit"a said x, or another Rav said that, etc. We can speak privately and get clear-cut answers to shailos, or we can ask for eitzos, and imbibe their hashkafa and use some guiding principles in making our individual decisions.
Back to top

amother
Powderblue


 

Post Wed, Nov 09 2016, 6:07 am
If you ask a Rav and don't plan to listen why ask Emunas Tzadikim means that when we ask for Bruchos and advice we will have more hazlacha and know that was best for us
Back to top

sky




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 09 2016, 6:19 am
It could be I"m wrong on this - but there are laws about who can endorse who.
I don't think the agudah as an organization can even legally endorse a candidate, and if they did, it would be dangerous if that candidate didn't win.
A school can also not endorse a candidate.
If our school would like us to vote for someone on the board of ed they could send out a letter on personal stationary (like the owner can make a personal request) but the school itself cannot send out a letter on the school stationary.

I have heard that some Gedolim said to vote for Trump, because Hillary's and Johnson's stance on social issues, but I didn't hear about it first hand.
While I thought the Hamodia had very balanced articles about the candidates they did have adisclaimer at the beginning of Hillary's supporter (actually written by the supporter himself) that you have to speak to a rav if her stance on social issues is a problem.
Back to top

amother
Beige


 

Post Wed, Nov 09 2016, 6:36 am
MagentaYenta wrote:
I would be appalled if I had a teacher telling my elementary school child who her parents were supposed to vote for.


My daughter's elementary school teacher told the class that she is not voting. I am actually appalled by this (that she would tell her class this). I don't think it's an appropriate message for 8 year olds.

She also told the class that Trump is immature. Whether I disagree with that or not, he is now elected our next president and I would have preferred my daughter not hear this.

I am upset, and debating whether I should let the teacher know this. I feel that your 3rd grade class is not your platform, and you should be more careful what you say to them.
Back to top

Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 09 2016, 8:53 am
I'd be livid if it was discussed in class, if they hold fake elections etc. sick
Back to top
Page 2 of 2 Previous  1  2 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Musical people, please weigh in…am I doomed?
by amother
30 Today at 4:38 am View last post
Affordable Frum cities
by GLUE
13 Today at 4:25 am View last post
I love frum fashion for kids
by amother
149 Today at 12:03 am View last post
Did you deliver MM or wait for people to come to you?
by amother
39 Yesterday at 6:43 am View last post
How do people make money?
by amother
11 Wed, Mar 27 2024, 9:35 pm View last post