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Why do people hate Hillary?
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 11:04 am
DrMom wrote:
What difference, at this point, does it make?


Love this!!
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amother
Navy


 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 11:11 am
[quote="Simple1"]I still never got to the bottom of this. She definitely made mistakes. But there is bias on both sides, so how is it possible to know if she is really so terrible as some think she is.

I think it all started with people who thought she was too ambitious as a first lady.

I know it makes no difference now.

But I felt sooo bad for her. She tried so hard for this her whole life. And then suddenly, shockingly, without warning, failed to reach presidency.

It's like watching a tragedy unfold.

I know I'm alone in thinking this way. The people I know are thinking good for her, she deserves it.[/quote]


No need to go thru this again, but she undoubtedly did things that are borderline criminal. Your calling it "mistakes". You ask how is it possible to KNOW she's so bad? I guess we don't know forsure but there was certainly alot to find in terms of flaws with her. Of course there were many problems with Trump as well. When you compare each candidates problems side by side, I don't think it's a no brainer who's the better choice.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 11:13 am
Why? Let me count thy ways.

Voting for anyone based on gender is sexism. If gender influences your decision in any way- that is wrong. Not ok in the workplace, not ok in elections.

And being told I belong in a special place in h**l for not helping a woman get elect irked me the wrong way.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02.....?_r=0

I also didn't like her obvious and alleged corruption and cover ups. From covering up her husband's "misbehavior" with women, to deleting emails after subpoenas were given, to pay for play and the Clinton foundation, to the fact SHE feels she is above the rules for the common man -her husband speaking privately and off the books with someone involved in investigating her? If not for one nosy cameraman would we ever know this? How much else are we missing?

Every politician has scandals. But when we know about so many it makes me wonder what else is out there.

This is besides her ties with the PA, stance on Israel, her economic policies....
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 11:14 am
dancingqueen wrote:
I asked the same question way before Election Day, and to be honest I never got an answer that really made sense to me, since many of the complaints about her are about her as a person, not her policies (which admittedly have changed over time) and Donald trumps personality and ethics are just as bad if not worse. You are hardly the only person disappointed for her and at the result of the election.

I still maintain that there was a strong sense of "she's too ambitious" which people love in a man (e.g. Trump) but are uncomfortable with in a woman.


I think the people who say this had nothing to do with gender are missing this point.

Hillary hate began decades ago, in an era when it was a lot more acceptable to have the attitude that woman need to fill some fantasy role. A lot of the negativity that followed was based on that foundation.

Even if the people who don't like her now don't think it's about gender, and it may not be for them personally, they may not realize that so much of the cloud around her has its roots in the attitude embodied by the Arkansas constituency (and Republican party) of the early 80's.
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 11:26 am
I tremendously admire her ambition.
I would have loved to have a female president if it were the right person.
Women can do everything men can so- only better. Wink
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amother
Wheat


 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 11:29 am
there are always haters for every politician. in the end Hillary won the popular vote. lucky Trump, the electoral college worked in his favor. there is more hate for Trump than for her but it's time to accept it and move on with hope for a better future.

the end.
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 11:41 am
Of course and it is not surprising that people will make Trump's win all about gender. If Obama lost the election, many would've said it's because he's black and America is not ready for a black president too. He won twice so nobody was able to say that. Hillary won the popular vote which actually demonstrates that for at least half of America, her gender did not stop them. It needs to be acknowledged that people base their votes on many factors. I have more faith in Americans than to believe that Trump only won because he's a man. I know there's more work to do to promote women's rights and equality and I am all for that cause. However, I don't think this election win was all about gender.
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 12:09 pm
amother wrote:
Of course and it is not surprising that people will make Trump's win all about gender. If Obama lost the election, many would've said it's because he's black and America is not ready for a black president too. He won twice so nobody was able to say that. Hillary won the popular vote which actually demonstrates that for at least half of America, her gender did not stop them. It needs to be acknowledged that people base their votes on many factors. I have more faith in Americans than to believe that Trump only won because he's a man. I know there's more work to do to promote women's rights and equality and I am all for that cause. However, I don't think this election win was all about gender.


I don't know if anyone thinks it's all about gender. But it's unrealistic to dismiss it as a factor. Just as it is unrealistic to dismiss racism as a factor in the hatred of Obama.

I have anecdotal evidence of both, so obviously this is not an overwhelmingly decisive issue in politics, but neither issue is completely resolved.
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tryinghard




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 12:15 pm
youngishbear wrote:

Even if the people who don't like her now don't think it's about gender, and it may not be for them personally, they may not realize that so much of the cloud around her has its roots in the attitude embodied by the Arkansas constituency (and Republican party) of the early 80's.



My reasons (and the reasons of everyone with whom I have discussed this) for disliking her have NOTHING to do with gender. But thanks for the smug condescension.

It has everthing to do with actions, statements, attitudes, policies, crimes and lies. But I guess my being against Obama for his actions, statements, attitudes and policies (no lies or crimes that I know of) means that I am racist, even if I don't think I am racist.
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rfeig613




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 12:17 pm
She's an evil, self-serving elitist, who shamed her husband's rape victims and brought nothing but shame and scandal to this country.

http://www.theatlantic.com/pol.....6182/
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 12:23 pm
tryinghard wrote:
My reasons (and the reasons of everyone with whom I have discussed this) for disliking her have NOTHING to do with gender. But thanks for the smug condescension.

It has everthing to do with actions, statements, attitudes, policies, crimes and lies. But I guess my being against Obama for his actions, statements, attitudes and policies (no lies or crimes that I know of) means that I am racist, even if I don't think I am racist.


Again, it's not you (collective or individual) being racist, overtly or secretly. It's about the cloud of venom generated around both of them, at least in part by people who do have those perspectives, that many people accepted as fact.

If actions and statements are so reprehensible to you, how could (collective) you not be horriffied by Trump's?

I can respect policy differences. I don't understand the rest. If this election was truly about policy, I would not be as upset by Hillary's loss.
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 12:30 pm
youngishbear wrote:
I don't know if anyone thinks it's all about gender. But it's unrealistic to dismiss it as a factor. Just as it is unrealistic to dismiss racism as a factor in the hatred of Obama.

I have anecdotal evidence of both, so obviously this is not an overwhelmingly decisive issue in politics, but neither issue is completely resolved.


I don't remember any rallies in the streets when Obama won or hateful signs like #notmypresident. He was fully accepted as the president of the United States. Public displays of hate are being demonstrated against Trump and nobody is stopping it. Can you imagine if people did this when Obama won? I respect Hillary and Obama and those who support them and I respect those that have different political views than I do. The people rallying in the streets have no respect for this presidential election.

It seems to me that many people are really upset that a white man won. I don't think this much hate would've been displayed if Hillary won and it certainly wasn't the case when Obama won. Yet, it's being tolerated and even applauded.
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amother
Forestgreen


 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 12:44 pm
amother wrote:
I don't remember any rallies in the streets when Obama won or hateful signs like #notmypresident. He was fully accepted as the president of the United States. Public displays of hate are being demonstrated against Trump and nobody is stopping it. Can you imagine if people did this when Obama won? I respect Hillary and Obama and those who support them and I respect those that have different political views than I do. The people rallying in the streets have no respect for this presidential election.

It seems to me that many people are really upset that a white man won. I don't think this much hate would've been displayed if Hillary won and it certainly wasn't the case when Obama won. Yet, it's being tolerated.


Liberals are very outspoken. They feel that they must be heard loud and clear again and again. Think Zuccoti park( whatever it's called) and Black lives matter. The only way to get through is by being loud. It's their way or no way.
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rfeig613




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 12:45 pm
amother wrote:
I don't remember any rallies in the streets when Obama won or hateful signs like #notmypresident. He was fully accepted as the president of the United States. Public displays of hate are being demonstrated against Trump and nobody is stopping it. Can you imagine if people did this when Obama won? I respect Hillary and Obama and those who support them and I respect those that have different political views than I do. The people rallying in the streets have no respect for this presidential election.

It seems to me that many people are really upset that a white man won. I don't think this much hate would've been displayed if Hillary won and it certainly wasn't the case when Obama won. Yet, it's being tolerated and even applauded.


If Ben Carson, Herman Cain, Allen West, Alan Keyes, Carly Fiorina, Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz, or Marco Rubio had won, there would have been the same rioting and pandemonium.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 12:51 pm
youngishbear wrote:
I think the people who say this had nothing to do with gender are missing this point.

Hillary hate began decades ago, in an era when it was a lot more acceptable to have the attitude that woman need to fill some fantasy role. A lot of the negativity that followed was based on that foundation.

Even if the people who don't like her now don't think it's about gender, and it may not be for them personally, they may not realize that so much of the cloud around her has its roots in the attitude embodied by the Arkansas constituency (and Republican party) of the early 80's.


I would have voted for a woman easily if it was SOMEONE ELSE. I know many others like this. We didn't like her as president. Who cares what her gender is- it was her I didn't like.

And I wasn't around "back then" so don't tell me there is a subliminal message imparted within me before I was conceived. I looked at her record, her words, her actions. And I didn't like it.
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tryinghard




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 12:52 pm
youngishbear wrote:


If actions and statements are so reprehensible to you, how could (collective) you not be horriffied by Trump's?

I can respect policy differences. I don't understand the rest. If this election was truly about policy, I would not be as upset by Hillary's loss.


If I was speaking about personal actions and statements, you would be correct, but I refer to political statements and actions.

I have said this before on other threads - my husband's Rav said, "Do you want him as Rosh Kollel? Of course not! But for the dirty filthy job of POTUS, he's the right man for the job."
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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 12:57 pm
Bottom line is, I would rather have a crazy president with a normal, balanced congress and Supreme Court than a corrupt president with an Israel hating, pro Iran deal, religion (except Islam!) hating congress.

I would rather have a crazy president with a normal congress than a president and congress who will force me to use bathrooms with transgender people, or anyone who feels he/she is really a woman/man.

I would rather have a crazy president with a balanced congress than a president and congress who are blind to the dangers of Islam. Trump may have crazy ideas, but I am sure his advisors and republican congress will persuade him to adapt a more middle of the road, sensible policy, but one that is more secure than Obama's "let's welcome them all, including Mr and Mrs San Bernandino and Orlando Pulse."

And I would hate to have a president who committed things that had I myself done, I would have been fined/jailed/fired/otherwise penalized. (As I mentioned before, there's Travelgate, whitewater, Lootergate, emails etc.)
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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 12:58 pm
It was an insult to all women that we couldn't find a better candidate to represent us. Someone without so many "mistakes" to her record.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 12:59 pm
youngishbear wrote:
Again, it's not you (collective or individual) being racist, overtly or secretly. It's about the cloud of venom generated around both of them, at least in part by people who do have those perspectives, that many people accepted as fact.

If actions and statements are so reprehensible to you, how could (collective) you not be horriffied by Trump's?

I can respect policy differences. I don't understand the rest. If this election was truly about policy, I would not be as upset by Hillary's loss.


Don't be so condescending. Race and gender are not involved in every decision out there!

But I guess if Liberals disagree with something and cannot come to terms with losing, they blame sexism or racism.
Carly Fiorina didn't win the nomination but there was no protests and outcry over sexism there. Ben Carson lost and no protests about racism.
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 11 2016, 1:19 pm
amother wrote:
Don't be so condescending. Race and gender are not involved in every decision out there!

But I guess if Liberals disagree with something and cannot come to terms with losing, they blame sexism or racism.
Carly Fiorina didn't win the nomination but there was no protests and outcry over sexism there. Ben Carson lost and no protests about racism.


Please don't read negativity into this. (Oh wait... only liberals have to stop reading offense into everything.)

I see misogyny in my community. I hear racism in my community. Was this election only about these? Of course not. Was it for some people a part of the issue? Absolutely.

Some people have said it to me outright.

"I don't like him because he is black."
"But a woman doesn't belong to run a country!"

And I'm not even starting with the racist jokes.

I am not calling any individual who voted for Trump racist. I am saying that many of the things people believe about Hillary were built up and exaggerated by people who hate her at least partially because she is a powerful outspoken "nasty" woman.

I don't think that what happened to Hillary in Arkansas would happen to any politician's wife today. (At least I hope not...) So overall, we do live in a better world for women. And she didn't lose because of our blatant misogyny. But it's there and it's ugly. And we can only make things better if we face it.
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