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Do you take a child to the dr the first day they have fever?
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amother
Dodgerblue


 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 9:25 pm
cnc wrote:
I just want to say that I am a living example of what happens when antibiotics are over prescribed.
I was given antibiotics for a certain recurring issue very very often when I was a child and right now I am allergic to two antibiotics and resistant to almost all others. Try having a UTI or strep and not being able to treat it (when you really need the antibiotics!) because most antibiotics will not work.

Antibiotics definitely has an important place in medicine but don't assume it comes without consequences.

It should be used only when necessary - not whenever prescribed by over zealous doctors.


I have a very similar situation. I had recurring ear infections and sinus infections, all the way into high school and was always given antibiotics for it.

I'm now allergic to penicillin and sulfa and many other antibiotics just don't work for me.

A year ago, I had MRSA and had to have emergency surgery to remove it because there was no antibiotics that I can take that was working for it.
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sweetpotato




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 9:33 pm
gold21 wrote:
Sounds reasonable. Tongue Out

Im definitely not a first time mother btw Tongue Out

I'm a cautious person. That's my personality and my approach to life. I view the all-natural approach as risky and irresponsible.


I do not take an "all-natural approach" by any means. But I do recognize that most childhood illness is caused by viruses, and per my pediatrician advice (which is supported by the AAP guidelines), a fever in a child over 1 year that is under 104 and isn't accompanied by other *severe* symptoms can be watched/waited out for a few days and treated with comfort measures. Fever is the body's beneficial physiological response to infection. Most illness accompanied by fever requires no medication or special monitoring, and are not a medical emergency. This is just common sense.
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Raw




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 9:41 pm
amother wrote:
Just to stick in my British 2 cents if I may. UTI's are very easily cured naturally if caught early enough. As for Strep throat, this is laughable over here. Even my own doctor agrees Americans are just making money off people for it. It's a hype. If you have a throat infection and look after yourself properly, antibiotics certainly shouldn't be needed.

My doctor explained when I asked him why us British people don't seem to get this terrible American disease called strep throat as follows: "You know that feeling where you feel feverish and it hurts to swallow and sometime white pus spots appear on the tonsils which lead to tonsillitis? That's what they call strep throat in the USA. Over here we suggest early signs of it should be treated with lemon, honey, ginger and hot water and taking strepsils if necessary. We call it a sore throat here and Antibiotics are a last resort if you haven't taken care of it early and it develops into full blown tonsillitis."

Anyway, in all my years on this earth and in all my years as a mother I've not had to treat tonsillitis with antibiotics so running to the doctor with a fever wouldn't be necessary. In answer to the fever question, fevers are the bodies way of detoxing toxins. We usually let fevers run its course and ensure the child is hydrated and wearing breathable clothes to sweat naturally and keep the child home and not over stimulate them for another 2 days following the fever. We don't attempt to supress fevers at all and only ever go to the doctor if the child is in pain or doesn't seem to be keeping down fluids, or if it is a young baby (which bh hasn't occured). In fact my 2 year old currently has an ear infection which has lasted over a week and still has pus oozing from it. But she never had a fever accompanying it or any pain so we waited a full week to check it out. We saw a locum doctor who advised us to let it run its course as long as she's comfortable and that's what we are doing! You may disagree with my methods but after a fever or illness which lasts from a day to 3 or 4, my kids normally pass a developmental milestone and are healthy again for another 6 months to a year.

But that's just my humble opinion on fevers (whom my wonderful doctor agrees with for those of you who may take to bashing my stance). Take it or leave it.



I just have to add to this post. I am an Australian living in NY and my doctor has said the exact same thing about strep in America. It is an alarmist response with a quick antibiotic fix here. Doctors don't even want you to wait to let the body try deal with the strep virus and build immunity. No, they want you on antibiotics RIGHT AWAY.
There is a reason why strep is so common in the US, and practically a non issue in Australia and Britain.
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Coffee Addict




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 9:59 pm
Oy, this subject, sigh. I go a lot to the doctor. Bh. No complains Wink

Really depends. One of my kids I go right away. He's had pneumonia in the past several times. One kid has more strept than others, so of course I do throat cultures. One kid has more viral, just fever for few days , so I won't run the first day.

Ke"h, BH for these illnesses only, Hashem!!!

Let us all be HEALTHY AND HAPPY!!

Smile Smile Smile
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 9:59 pm
gold21 wrote:
Sounds reasonable. Tongue Out

Im definitely not a first time mother btw Tongue Out

I'm a cautious person. That's my personality and my approach to life. I view the all-natural approach as risky and irresponsible.
oops sorry
I agree.
I know someone who has heart problems because her parents didn't give her antibiotics for strep throat as a child. I would not risk that.
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 10:02 pm
cnc wrote:
I just want to say that I am a living example of what happens when antibiotics are over prescribed.
I was given antibiotics for a certain recurring issue very very often when I was a child and right now I am allergic to two antibiotics and resistant to almost all others. Try having a UTI or strep and not being able to treat it (when you really need the antibiotics!) because most antibiotics will not work.

Antibiotics definitely has an important place in medicine but don't assume it comes without consequences.

It should be used only when necessary - not whenever prescribed by over zealous doctors.


I would only give antibiotics when I believe it to be necessary.
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 10:05 pm
sweetpotato wrote:
I do not take an "all-natural approach" by any means. But I do recognize that most childhood illness is caused by viruses, and per my pediatrician advice (which is supported by the AAP guidelines), a fever in a child over 1 year that is under 104 and isn't accompanied by other *severe* symptoms can be watched/waited out for a few days and treated with comfort measures. Fever is the body's beneficial physiological response to infection. Most illness accompanied by fever requires no medication or special monitoring, and are not a medical emergency. This is just common sense.


Usually our viewpoints are shaped by our experiences.

If you have found this approach successful, then it's working for you.

In my view, if a child has obvious viral symptoms, I treat at home. However, often the lines are blurred, or at least in my case I have seen that the lines can be blurred... in which case I bring to the doctor.
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 10:06 pm
ectomorph wrote:
oops sorry
I agree.
I know someone who has heart problems because her parents didn't give her antibiotics for strep throat as a child. I would not risk that.


I'm with ya
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 10:07 pm
Coffee Addict wrote:
Oy, this subject, sigh. I go a lot to the doctor. Bh. No complains Wink

Really depends. One of my kids I go right away. He's had pneumonia in the past several times. One kid has more strept than others, so of course I do throat cultures. One kid has more viral, just fever for few days , so I won't run the first day.

Ke"h, BH for these illnesses only, Hashem!!!

Let us all be HEALTHY AND HAPPY!!

Smile Smile Smile


Amen!!
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 10:13 pm
gold21 wrote:
As often as the child needs antibiotics. When antibiotics are needed, I give antibiotics.


right, but doctors often prescribe antibiotics when they are not necessary. mild ear infections in children generally don't require antibiotics, for example. how do you determine the necessity of the treatment?

I'm interested in finding out about differing viewpoints here. I also use antibiotics when necessary, but I'm not one to rush to the doctor.
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 10:17 pm
This was written up in answer to a similar topic:

It’s interesting to read this from an Australian perspective where we really don’t get too concerned about strep throats. As the evidence shows, most throat infections are viral, most get better within 3-4 days whether you treat with antibiotics or not, and even a positive throat swab or antigen test doesn’t prove that the infective agent is streptococcus. Apart from Aboriginal communities, the rate of rheumatic disease is virtually zero here. Meanwhile, all that antibiotic prescribing for minimal benefit is creating resistance like crazy. 9 days of throat pain may be unpleasant, but being in hospital with an MRSA eating away at a surgical wound is much, much worse.

The big difference, I think, in Australia is that the federal health department got wise after about 15 years of unsuccessfully promoting conservative treatment among doctors. They finally realised that the main reason doctors prescribed antibiotics was because of patient expectation — so they expanded the education campaigns to include the public. I have noticed a major decline in the number of patients insisting on antibiotics over the last 10 years, and that makes it a lot easier to treat the disease symptomatically. I know from my own audits that I prescribe antibiotics for a small minority of URTIs — and those almost always have some complicating factor such as COPD or clinically evident tonsillitis, or have been unwell for over a week.

There are obviously considerable cultural differences between the Australian and US medical systems. For instance, in Australia, throat swabs are almost never ordered. The last time I swabbed someone’s throat was years ago, and I never see throat swab results coming back from my colleagues. I suspect that if the US wants to get its antibiotic prescribing rate down, then the Surgeon-General needs to educate the public as well as the medical profession.
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amother
Indigo


 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 10:26 pm
mummiedearest wrote:
right, but doctors often prescribe antibiotics when they are not necessary. mild ear infections in children generally don't require antibiotics, for example. how do you determine the necessity of the treatment?

I'm interested in finding out about differing viewpoints here. I also use antibiotics when necessary, but I'm not one to rush to the doctor.


I've discussed this issue with my pedi. A very large number of ear infections do resolve on their own, but the problem is that we can't know that retrospectively.

If I were to tell my dr. that I don't want my child given antibiotics for an ear infection, he would ask that I bring the child back in in two days to be checked.

I know an older man who is deaf. He was a war baby, and told me that he had frequent, untreated ear infections as a young child that ultimately caused damage to his ears resulting in deafness.
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 10:26 pm
mummiedearest wrote:
right, but doctors often prescribe antibiotics when they are not necessary. mild ear infections in children generally don't require antibiotics, for example. how do you determine the necessity of the treatment?

I'm interested in finding out about differing viewpoints here. I also use antibiotics when necessary, but I'm not one to rush to the doctor.


I weigh risk vs benefit. I feel that using antibiotics for ear infections provides more benefit than risk. If someone feels otherwise, I would love to see the stats lined up to prove risk over benefit.
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 10:28 pm
amother wrote:
This was written up in answer to a similar topic:

It’s interesting to read this from an Australian perspective where we really don’t get too concerned about strep throats. As the evidence shows, most throat infections are viral, most get better within 3-4 days whether you treat with antibiotics or not, and even a positive throat swab or antigen test doesn’t prove that the infective agent is streptococcus. Apart from Aboriginal communities, the rate of rheumatic disease is virtually zero here. Meanwhile, all that antibiotic prescribing for minimal benefit is creating resistance like crazy. 9 days of throat pain may be unpleasant, but being in hospital with an MRSA eating away at a surgical wound is much, much worse.

The big difference, I think, in Australia is that the federal health department got wise after about 15 years of unsuccessfully promoting conservative treatment among doctors. They finally realised that the main reason doctors prescribed antibiotics was because of patient expectation — so they expanded the education campaigns to include the public. I have noticed a major decline in the number of patients insisting on antibiotics over the last 10 years, and that makes it a lot easier to treat the disease symptomatically. I know from my own audits that I prescribe antibiotics for a small minority of URTIs — and those almost always have some complicating factor such as COPD or clinically evident tonsillitis, or have been unwell for over a week.

There are obviously considerable cultural differences between the Australian and US medical systems. For instance, in Australia, throat swabs are almost never ordered. The last time I swabbed someone’s throat was years ago, and I never see throat swab results coming back from my colleagues. I suspect that if the US wants to get its antibiotic prescribing rate down, then the Surgeon-General needs to educate the public as well as the medical profession.


Antibiotics are not administered for a viral sore throat. I had a terrible sore throat last week and did not take antibiotics.

When the strep bacteria is proven to be present, that's when antibiotics are given.
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yksraya




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 10:41 pm
I usually wait 3 days and if it didn't get better I take them to dr. Unless there's a very high fever, in which case I would take right away.
Babies I take sooner of course.

I want to add, when a fever spikes high, and then it goes down to very low, and then spikes again, it is a symptom of infection and needs to be checked out right away, especially in infants.

A mild ear infection caused by teething I don't treat with abx. If it's more severe and baby is in terrible pain I would. Bh that hasn't happened. However an ear infection in older kids does need abx as it's very painful and can cause harm if not treated.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 10:45 pm
amother wrote:
...
There are obviously considerable cultural differences between the Australian and US medical systems. For instance, in Australia, throat swabs are almost never ordered. The last time I swabbed someone’s throat was years ago, and I never see throat swab results coming back from my colleagues. I suspect that if the US wants to get its antibiotic prescribing rate down, then the Surgeon-General needs to educate the public as well as the medical profession.


Responsible Drs have been lowering their prescribing rates of antibiotics here in the US for some time. My now 31 yo DD had antibiotics twice in her life. Once post op at 1.5 , and once when she was 10 and tested positive for strep. It was the only time she ever had strep.

I don't know many folks who have had multiple rounds of strep with their children. I read about it a lot on line and I really wonder if it's multiple kids passing it to one another. Do you think it could be connected to frequent antibiotic use?
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yksraya




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 10:51 pm
MagentaYenta wrote:
Responsible Drs have been lowering their prescribing rates of antibiotics here in the US for some time. My now 31 yo DD had antibiotics twice in her life. Once post op at 1.5 , and once when she was 10 and tested positive for strep. It was the only time she ever had strep.

I don't know many folks who have had multiple rounds of strep with their children. I read about it a lot on line and I really wonder if it's multiple kids passing it to one another. Do you think it could be connected to frequent antibiotic use?

Frequent antibiotic use does weaken the immune system.
The frequent strep tho is bec many ppl send the kids to school when they are sick, and the schools are a breeding place for all kinds of sickness.
Any kid can get infected by the sick kid, but when the immune system is weakened there's a bit of a higher chance for that to happen.
Abx should be used "only" for when it's absolutely a must. Many Dr's take the cue from the moms, if the mom is worried they will more likely prescribe something even when not neccessary just to calm the mom down.
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anonymrs




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 11:04 pm
amother wrote:
I've discussed this issue with my pedi. A very large number of ear infections do resolve on their own, but the problem is that we can't know that retrospectively.

If I were to tell my dr. that I don't want my child given antibiotics for an ear infection, he would ask that I bring the child back in in two days to be checked.

I know an older man who is deaf. He was a war baby, and told me that he had frequent, untreated ear infections as a young child that ultimately caused damage to his ears resulting in deafness.


I do this all the time and with only one exception, I've not had to medicate for ear infections because it's always been cleared up within the next 2-3 days.
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Notsobusy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 23 2016, 11:14 pm
gande wrote:
As a child I was overmedicated as were many in my generation. Fast forward 20 plus years I am healthy as can be with a very strong immune system bh.

So if antibotics is recommended by the doctor it is safer to take it than to risk the child's health.

Let's not get into the psychological effect a prolonged fever has on a child and that feeling of helplessness and discomfort can have a lifelong impact.


Same as you. Our pediatrician's policy was pretty much, if you walk into my office you walk out with a prescription. B"h myself and my siblings are all pretty healthy.
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cnc




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 24 2016, 12:02 am
gold21 wrote:
I weigh risk vs benefit. I feel that using antibiotics for ear infections provides more benefit than risk. If someone feels otherwise, I would love to see the stats lined up to prove risk over benefit.


I can't give you stats, I can only give you my personal experience which includes the time that my son's strep culture came back showing that he's resistant to over 30 types of antibiotics. The choice at that point was being hospitalized for antibiotics through IV for ten days or being given a specific very strong antibiotics which is never given to three year olds. I took the second option and switched pediatrician to one who says I can wait a couple of days if the child is not in agony. After a couple of day we can re-evaluate if the meds are necessary.

I blame this incident on my former doctor who dispensed antibiotics as if it was aspirin candy. I've had other medical professionals back me up.
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