Will school vouchers happen soon?

doctorima

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 10:24 am

Even if they do vouchers, I think it will likely be initially target at inner cities and poor neighborhoods to give the kids there a chance at a better education. If you live in a middle-class or wealthier neighborhood, I doubt the federal government will be paying your yeshiva tuition in the near future.

marina

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 12:21 pm

Just fyi- vouchers pay not only for yeshivos, but also for madrassas. In Ohio, vouchers take money from the public schools and directly go to the private schools. Where no one can control what they teach. So be aware that while your day school tuition may be lower, your taxes are paying for kids to learn to hate Israel and Jews and you can't do anything about it.

allthingsblue

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 2:10 pm

marina wrote:

It's probably illegal to teach students to hate Jews in the US.
And as for hating Israel, the students learn that in public school anyway. So what's the difference?

amother

Yellow

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 3:33 pm

marina wrote:

Muslim religious schools will teach what they teach regardless. And if they violate any laws, hopefully they will be held accountable, regardless of their funding sources.

But it would be a lot easier to pay my yeshiva tuitions if I didn't have such high property taxes that fund local public schools.

MrsDash

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 3:36 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

It's probably illegal to teach students to hate Jews in the US.
And as for hating Israel, the students learn that in public school anyway. So what's the difference?

What the what?

My daughter is in public school and the only thing she's taught about other cultures and countries is to respect and be kind and accept all types of people. No hate.

leah233

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 3:40 pm

amother wrote:

If you live in a area with a large frum population you taxes will really skyrocket. Not only will you be paying for the local public schools you will be paying taxes for the Yeshivos too. The federal government certainly isn't going to start paying vouchers only to private and religious schools. Nor is it going to volunteer to take on the costs of local public schools that it wasn't funding until now.

amother

Yellow

Thu, Nov 24 2016, 3:49 pm

leah233 wrote:

There is so much bloat in the system that the government can get away with, specifically because most of the tax money coming in for public schools is being paid by people not availing themselves of the public schools.

For instance, NYC spends aprx $30,000 per public elementary school child per year, making the average yeshiva tuitions of $7-11,000 laughable. This is far more than the actual cost of educating each child.

marina

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 12:02 am

amother wrote:

their funding sources = your wallet. Just so that we're clear.

And of course, when parochial schools become more affordable, more parents will sign up.

5mom

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 1:41 am

I'm with Marina here.

First, when "the government" pays for something, it means that YOU are paying, with your tax dollars.

Second, funding religious schools means that more children will be getting religious education. Imagine a whole network of ISIS day schools teaching kids to kill infidels. Is that a desirable result?

You'll say that funding comes with strings. You can't teach anything you want. In that case, the teachings at Jewish schools will come under scrutiny too. Consider the possible outcomes of that scenario.

The United States is well served by its separation of church and state. If you want public school with Jewish education, you can always make aliyah.

amother

Cyan

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 7:08 am

I would be afraid that my kids won't be accepted in yeshiva because if I don't have vouchers and you do, they would rather take your kids and be guaranteed that tuition is paid on time and more than what they ask for. Like section 8, landlords in Brooklyn didn't want to hear from me because they only wanted a tenant with section 8, so they are secured with timely rent.

As is, parents have to put down thousands of dollars to be accepted in schools. The ones who can't have their kids home. I believe vouchers would just make this crisis worse in Monsey.

nylon

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 10:35 am

One, it's not going to happen, because the federal government doesn't have that power. States fund schools.

It will never happen in New York because NYS has a very explicit Blaine Amendment banning funding to religious schools and institutions. That's aside from the cost issue.

In order for vouchers not to become a subsidy, you need to require that they be accepted as payment in full. The voucher is not going to be worth as much as tuition in most Jewish schools. It would involve a bunch of changes to the funding models of Jewish schools.

As for the cost of education: MO schools charge much more. And MO high schools can be $25K. Meanwhile MO schools, while pay is closer to public, do not provide the benefits and pensions that PS does, or the special ed services. That's where the money goes--not "bloat." When you see those huge per student costs in Scarsdale, it's because all their teachers are experienced and well paid and most make six figures. They keep class sizes smaller, they provide lots of courses, and they have expensive special education programs.

marina

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 12:42 pm

nylon wrote:

Nothing prevents the legislature from using federal funds for voucher programs, other than first amendment challenges, which often fail. Legislation to do this is proposed every so often https://www.washingtonpost.com.....vels/

It's entirely feasible that Congress, with this administration's full support, will pass one of these bills sometime soon. And state legislators certainly will feel more empowered to enact such laws at the state level.

And I don't understand vouchers would have to pay for the entire bill or how having a subsidy would contradict my point.

Maybe

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 12:53 pm

5mom wrote:

Where are more dollars wasted, in public or private schools ?

Is there no legal way, to ban ISIS schools in USA ?

Don't count on vouchers in your mailbox Jan 21, but it is more likely now than ever before.

Maybe

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 1:01 pm

amother wrote:

Sec 8 is a mess, food stamps & medicaid are provided for anyone who meets guidelines.

nylon

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 2:10 pm

Marina- I'm not really disagreeing with you. Smile

Fed money can be used but they can't force the states, as far as I know, to implement vouchers. All they could do is allow it.

Let's say a voucher is worth $6K. If there's no requirement to accept it as payment in full, poor families can't afford to use it at many schools. So they have to accept it as payment in full (I think you mentioned elsewhere this is the law in OH). But let's say the school charges $11K. They have to either be willing to give every voucher recipient a $5K scholarship in all but name, or not take them. Now, I know that Ohio lets people above a certain income top it up, but the danger is that vouchers become a subsidy to people who would send their kids to private school anyway. That's not considered a bug by many proponents, but it would be a financial drain on school districts.

(This scenario is why I don't think vouchers are the solution for Jewish education)