Can you say no? | Imamother

yo'ma

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 9:06 am

I was out with this woman and while we were out, her dd called and asked her if she could pick her up from the airport later. She told her yes, but after she told me that she doesn't know how she's going to do it because it's at a really bad time, but she doesn't know how to say no. I told her that I do. Not that I do all the time, but if I can't, I say I can't. She said it's because I'm american I can say no. I disagreed.

If you haven't figured it out, I mean no in the sense where you feel guilty saying no even when you can't and say yes. This is all in the general sense of saying no.

zaq

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 9:27 am

Nonsense. Being American has nothing to do with it; personality has. Leaf through any American women's magazine and you will find at least one article on "how to say no". "When I Say No I Feel Guilty" is an American book.

amother

Orchid

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 9:52 am

Every individual is an individual and you can't usually boil a person's decisions to one factor. But to the extent that there's such a thing as "American culture," it is individualist and encourages individuals to be as independent as possible and pursue what is best for them. American culture generally affirms free choice. This doesn't stop individual Americans from being pushovers, but it does set a certain background. Some other cultures are much more collectivist, and interdependence between family members is the norm.

If you write into an American advice column, for example, that your daughter and her husband work full time and can't afford a good daycare and have asked you to watch their child but you've been looking forward to retirement and you really don't feel like providing full-time childcare, you will likely get a response encouraging you to nicely but firmly assert boundaries and affirming that it is their responsibility to provide childcare and you are not at fault for their situation. There are other cultures, where the response would be very different. My grandmothers would never even write the above advice letter because they would view it as an obvious obligation to watch their grandchild in such a situation. Different culture entirely.

amother

Turquoise

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 11:09 am

(Amother because of identifying details).

I think Americans can say no, but not to their children. Their is a strong interdependency, hence the helicopter parenting.

I grew up outside of the US and moved here after I graduated university. When I moved here I worked on a college campus I couldn't believe the degree that parents were involved in their college age children's lives. Actively involved in class work, relationships between peers etc. The kids expected their children to be there for them and the parents were either unwilling or unable to say no.

In the frum world with the shidduch system this is very pronounced. In OP's post she doesn't say how old the daughter is, but she is flying be herself so I'm guessing at least late teens and possibly much older. From that age it never would have occurred to me to ask my parents to pick me up at the airport. They may have offered at times, but I frequently got a train from the airport and thought nothing of it.

amother

Aquamarine

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 11:21 am

This may have more to do with age than culture. When I was twenty I had a hard time saying no. Now that I'm older I don't. I did not leave the US the entire time.I just grew tired of being taken advantage of.

greenfire

Fri, Nov 25 2016, 5:04 pm

this surely isn't an american phenomenon ... all around the world people say sure to things they cannot really do or begrudge doing so & then make the other person crazy being late or reneging or some such nonsense ...

just say "NO" from the getgo ... it's a lot easier on the other person as well as yourself

p.s. I voted other because of it's insignificance to nationality

amother

Rose

Sat, Nov 26 2016, 5:43 pm

yo'ma wrote:

I say no easily. But then I have no problem being rude or offending people. The bright side is that when I say yes to you, I really mean yes.

My DH can't say no. I live in fear that some woman is going to throw himself at him and he will acquiesce because he can't say no.

I'm only half American FWIW but I think people pleasing is a personality trait not a nationality trait.

amazingmommy

Sat, Nov 26 2016, 6:56 pm

I'll ditto what other posters said...
I think this has nothing to do with being American or not. It does have to do with being a people pleaser.
To answer the question- I'm a work in progress- learning how to say no, and being assertive.

yo'ma

Sat, Nov 26 2016, 7:15 pm

amother wrote:

In OP's post she doesn't say how old the daughter is, but she is flying be herself so I'm guessing at least late teens and possibly much older. From that age it never would have occurred to me to ask my parents to pick me up at the airport. They may have offered at times, but I frequently got a train from the airport and thought nothing of it.

The dd is 20 and married and was with her dh. If she was single or younger, it wouldn't have been a question to even not say yes. She was also landing in the airport that wasn't far away, one that's in the city. That wasn't the point anyway.

yo'ma

Sat, Nov 26 2016, 7:17 pm

greenfire wrote:

p.s. I voted other because of it's insignificance to nationality

That's the point of the question. I also think the nationality has absolutely nothing to do with it and that's exactly why I'm specifically asking what nationality you are.

bluebird

Sat, Nov 26 2016, 10:43 pm

Aylat wrote:

You have to be careful how you interpret the results from this poll because there are more American than non-American women on this site.

Good point!

So far:

71% (39/55) of Americans can say "no"
91% (10/11) of non-Americans can say "no"
100% of others are other Very Happy

Iymnok

Sun, Nov 27 2016, 2:24 am

bluebird wrote:

Good point!

So far:

71% (39/55) of Americans can say "no"
91% (10/11) of non-Americans can say "no"
100% of others are other Very Happy

I directly answered the poll question, but I don't think my citizenship has that much to do with my decision.
I do in general try to say yes, but if I can't, I can't.
I may feel sorry or sad, but reality and my sanity are what they are.

rzab

Sun, Nov 27 2016, 2:33 am

I do agree that there is a cultural aspect to this. I grew up in NY and left the states when I got married. When I first had kids my mil would offer things to me to help out and I would gladly accept. Like she would call me and say why I don't come over and watch the kids so you can go to to the supermarket by yourself. I didn't need it, but it was a nice break and since she offered.... .. Then I would come home and she would rush out. And it was very clear to me the way she did it that she didnt actually have time to be there. It drove me crazy! I said something to my sil about it and she said, yeah, obviously she doesnt have time. I got so annoyed, why offer then? Then I realized it's a pattern with ppl in my community. My mil, my sil, friends, colleagues... At first I was very frustrated saying now I can't accept any help bc I don't know if the offer is real or not. Then I moved on to accepting help when I need it. And if they can't actually help, there is not much I can do about it...