Is it fitting? | Imamother

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Working Women

Is it fitting?

1 2 3 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother

Floralwhite

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 5:26 am

I have a baby .. I live in uk. I want to be a cleaner in December as I know cleaners are away. Is it fitting for a himishe young women to be a cleaner? Would you? And we do need money. We are struggling

CatLady

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 7:07 am

My parents taught me that no work is beneath me, as long as it's honest work and I do it well. I give you credit for finding an opportunity and preparing to fill it. That shows entrepreneurial spirit, seichel and determination. Do it!!!

amother

Purple

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 7:26 am

amother wrote:

I agree with the other poster.
But don't be surprised if no one in the frum community hires you, because there is an Inyan not give another Jew that type of job.
I would be ok being a cleaner, but not ok working in that type of job for a non Jew. Especially in the anti semetic world we live in
Is there a Jewish Federation of some sort in the UK, perhaps they have a job bank and can help you find employment. Perhaps you can do janitorial work in a girls school.

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 8:34 am

As a student I worked as a house cleaner, no problem. My immediate response is "go for it!"

I understand that there are some big differences: in my fairly affluent community, it was expected for young people to take low-status jobs and work their way up; it would have been unusual for an adult from that background to have such a job. Also, we're not "himishe" so I don't really know what that means, culturally.

In general, I have found that some people are reluctant to hire their friends/neighbors in any capacity, as it can be awkward to discuss fees and so on with a peer, even more so when the work is low-status. (I am not in the UK, so I don't know how this would be for you.) It is still a do-able plan, just be prepared for a few awkward interactions, and consider advertising your services outside your own community. Once you have one or two good clients, word-of-mouth might be enough to do the rest.

What is your plan for child care?

rachel6543

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 8:57 am

It's honest work & there's nothing wrong with doing that.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 9:12 am

Things to keep in mind - in this particular order.

1. How do you feel about being a cleaner?
2. Does your employer respect you?
3. Will your community respect you?

If this is the work you want to do, then go for it! If your employer treats you well, then go for it! If your community looks down on you, then ask them to pay all of your bills. If they don't, then they don't deserve to have an opinion on your work situation.

Over the years, I've hired several frum friends of mine to clean for me. We had great communication, had a lot of fun, and kept our friendships intact. I actually prefer having someone I know and trust in my house. Having an outsider poke through my stuff freaks me out and gives me panic attacks.

For me, because I have a lot of clutter and I'm disorganized, I feel very vulnerable letting someone in to clean for me. I worry about being judged. If I hire a friend, I know that they care about me, and won't make me feel bad for needing them. In return, I respect them, and don't make them feel bad for needing me to hire them. I always go out of my way to let them know how much help they are to me, not just in cleaning, but by giving me emotional support. Having a clean house takes SO much stress out of my life, so I always tip extra and thank them often.

The great thing about being a cleaner, is that there are always more messy houses than there are people willing to clean them up. If someone treats you like a shmatta, you can always find another employer. Insist on being treated well, and you will be.

estelle

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 9:40 am

I dont think theres anything wrong with it, but I dont think many frum ppl would employ you, its too weird

DrMom

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 10:01 am

estelle wrote:

I dont think theres anything wrong with it, but I dont think many frum ppl would employ you, its too weird

What is weird about working as a cleaner?

I think it's weirder not to work at all if you need the money and have the ability to work.

HonesttoGod

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 10:05 am

I think that is great but I have personally found that outside of Israel (where many many Jewish, frum people are cleaners), most people are very hesitant about employing a Jewish cleaner especially a frum lady.
They don't want to put them to task on things they wouldn't do themselves. Things they find 'degrading' especially as they do other things like go shopping etc.

rachel6543

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 10:58 am

To add to my post earlier, I would have no problem hiring frum cleaning help. What is most important to me is that any cleaning help I get is honest, reliable and does a good job cleaning. That's all.

5mom

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 11:06 am

amother wrote:

But don't be surprised if no one in the frum community hires you, because there is an Inyan not give another Jew that type of job.

Where on earth did you get this idea? There is a halacha of not having a kohen do menial labor for you. Could you be thinking of that?

BatZion

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 12:54 pm

Floralwhite- first of all, good for you, as others have said, for seeing that you need the money and being willing to work honestly for it.

I worked as a cleaner through university here in Israel but let's put it this way- my English mother never knew and probably never will know about it because culturally it is much less acceptable in England for a religious young woman to work in cleaning.

Having said that, if this is what is available for you and you are willing I salute you for it!

Miri7

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 12:56 pm

Growing up, my mom had a friend who did house-cleaning, which was unusual in our circles. Very unusual. But she liked it, as it was pretty flexible. She was smart, fast, very reliable, and often ended up doing some personal-assistant type of tasks that you would only entrust to a person who speaks your language well and gets your lifestyle, etc. So she ended up being like a housecleaner plus organizer/personal assistant.

When my grandmother was ill and my mom had to be out of town for extended periods, she was a lifesaver as my mom could depend on her to keep the house running, make sure us kids had the right things for school - uniforms, bake sale items, permission slips, etc. My dad worked long hours and was bad at that kind of stuff. She could pick us up from school (her kids were a bit older than us) and take us to pick up new shoes, etc. She would come clean our house during the day and make dinner so it would be there when we got home that evening, did grocery shopping, that sort of thing.

I remember asking my mom why she did this and my mom said she liked being independent and working for herself. My mom loved having someone smart and quick that she could rely on (not saying that the "average" housecleaner is not smart and quick. Just that there are advantages to having someone to help who comes from the same circles as you.)

amother

Floralwhite

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 3:19 pm

Op here. I mean just x mas hol..

Fox

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 3:37 pm

Miri7 wrote:

Even though you were only thinking of temporary employment, OP, I would think seriously about providing these kinds of services to a select group of clients in the future. Although it might be a new paradigm for women who are used to dealing with immigrant cleaning help, you can help them adapt by presenting yourself as a step up from the usual type of cleaning lady.

Of course, status issues are more hide-bound in the UK than in the US, so I may be underestimating the difficulty, but I still think it might be worth the effort. My current cleaning lady speaks and writes perfectly in English courtesy of her university major in Romania. Frankly, she's not the greatest cleaner in the world, but I can have her do much more complex projects because I can communicate with her easily.

Hatzlacha!

Happymum21

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 4:36 pm

Dear op

To make it sound 'better' in the frum community, market yourself as a 'housekeeper' or use a name like 'household angel', household organizer etc....
I think if you market it in the right way, like you will come to a persons home and help them organize, cope better with the holidays etc then it may go down quite well.

Bhatzlacha and good for you

amother

Blonde

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 5:28 pm

OP, this thread is interesting for me, as I'm from the UK and I worked as a cleaner for a while in Israel. I needed money, and (surprisingly) enjoyed the work. Sometimes, I would wonder if I'd work in the UK, say, over Pesach Chaggim. (As of now, it never happened, and at this point, it doesn't look like it'll be applicable for me so quickly)

A few comments that people mentioned, that I have seen true:
- I haven't much had "neutral" reactions to when I'd have told people my job. Usually it wasn't negative, but, still, saying "That's so good for you!" or, "I don't think it's a degrading job," or any other praise showed me that indeed I was working at a not-totally-accepted-in-frum-circles profession! But, honestly, I didn't care, I enjoyed my work and I enjoyed the money more Wink

!
- My Mum back in the UK had a particular difficult time accepting that this is what I was doing.
- When I'd work, I'd actually hear my Mum's comments to her cleaners throughout the years, and all the many complaints she had about them. So when I worked, I was complexed into thinking that they are "just taking me for they have nobody better", plus, (worse) I was always worried that when they wouldn't find something, they'd blame me (that happened all the time in my Mum's home!)

However, it is more acceptable to clean in Israel, plus, it's to my understanding that whilst in Israel it's one of the highest paid non-professional type of job (you can get 55NIS p/h, I'm not sure what the current rate is) in England, you can be earning less than minimum. Having said that, as a frum woman you can (assumingly) ask for much more.

I suggest that you consider carefully if it's worth it to go through with this if it's so temporary. If you'd consider doing it again at a later stage (say, before pesach, or next year), or if you really need the temporary money, it's probably worth it to advertise and see where it takes you. I do suggest though that you do realise exactly what an undertaking it is, how out of the box this is in the frum communities in England. Make sure that it's worth it for you to face, and if it's so short term, is it still worth your while.

I like the idea of going to a different part of the community, too.

In the period of time that I cleaned, the key for me was to be strong in myself that this was something I found necessary for me do at that point in my life, and everyone can say or think what they like, but the h with them! So, the same for you: follow your instinct and then you'll be fine.

amother

Emerald

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 5:51 pm

amother wrote:

I agree with the other poster.
But don't be surprised if no one in the frum community hires you, because there is an Inyan not give another Jew that type of job.

What on earth do you mean by "that type of job"??!! I thought it was a mitzvah to give business to another Jew, particularly one who is struggling?

amother

Emerald

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 5:53 pm

HonesttoGod wrote:

So it's ok for a non-Jew to do "degrading" work that people can't do themselves? That attitude disgusts me.

debsey

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 5:55 pm

Doing honest work for honest pay is never degrading. Anyone who thinks so needs to reexamine their priorities.

Page 1 of 3

1 2 3 Next