Teenage Feelings | Imamother

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

Teenage Feelings

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amother

Lemon

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 4:07 pm

Fox wrote:

Don't make a big deal of keeping them apart -- just arrange to see them when he's not around.

This shouldn't be a show-stopper: invite them for Sunday brunch or Tuesday night pizza or Wednesday night board games . . . whatever you can think of.

And then don't invite them for Yom Tov. If they say something about it, just tell them with an amused gleam in your eye that your son is entirely too taken with their daughter, and you want him focusing on his learning rather than thinking about girls, however fetching they may be.

Give the impression that their daughter is so beautiful and amazing that your poor weak son will likely be overwhelmed by her charms. That interpretation will be hard for them to resist.

The worst that will happen is that they'll privately judge you for being too frum and old-fashioned. But that's okay; people have been called worse things.

they don't live so close so random dates won't exactly work. they aren't going to make a trip to come for a single night in the middle of the week. maybe we should let them talk while supervised? I don't want them to start sneaking around...

debsey

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 4:09 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Yes exactly that.

I grew up JPF and my parents did not host teenage boys when I was home. I did not have my friends over for meals when my older brother was home.

My DH learns with older boys in a Yeshiva in Lakewood, and when our girls hit their teens, we stopped hosting boys for Shabbos, as it's considered inappropriate in our circles. The week of school Shabbos, DH told the guys it's their one and only chance...I cooked up a storm and they came!

My DD goes to her very good friend for Shabbos only when her brothers are not home. When she was 16, my cousin got married in England during her mid-winter vacation, and I had no where to leave her as her friends all have brothers living at home...so guess what? She got to come along, the lucky girl - a trip she will long remember.

If you are yeshivish, as you posted, this is pretty normal and standard practice.

I agree with this. You're putting your DS in a very precarious position, at an age when he's not equipped to deal with this, in an educational environment that doesn't really help with this type of issue. If your DS attended a more MO school, there would be rebbeim talking about how to handle emotional/physical attraction. Here, he's in a school that isn't going to educate him about how to handle it, but he's smack in the middle of a situation that can only be distracting at best, and disastrous at worst.

In yeshivish circles, it's self-understood that families with same-age, different gender children won't socialize when both sets of kids are home. My neighbor will come over with her four year old girl to play with my four year old son, but she'd never come over with her 18 year old son, given that I have an 18 year old daughter! I would never invite them for a shabbos meal, unless her son is away in yeshiva. (we actually don't socialize with other couples in this way at all, but that's probably restricted to the very yeshivishe)

You have a choice - you can be judged by your friend, or do something detrimental to your son. I know what I'd choose.

sequoia

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 4:09 pm

There's a thought.

Anyway it would be a good story to tell the grandkids Smile

debsey

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 4:11 pm

amother wrote:

Just think about one thing - how ready are you to be a grandmother? These are teenagers who seem to be attracted to one another. Do you really think your supervision is going to change anything? I'm not saying they will do anything illicit. But your son might get engaged at a very young age. It's happened before!

amother

Mistyrose

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 4:26 pm

sequoia wrote:

There's a thought.

Anyway it would be a good story to tell the grandkids Smile

Worked out for me and my dh Smile

.
We didn't see each other nearly as often, but parents were friends, and every number of years we'd share a Yom tov together. As we were both frum, good kids, we behaved ourselves (it did help that we lived far away), and when I graduated high school we officially started dating and broke it off so I could have a productive seminary year (my choice). Then we got married. Honestly, I understand your concerns. I think being realistic is your best bet. Also, the more acceptance on your part, but with saychel, makes for a better outcome. Have you spoken honestly with the girl's parents?

amother

Orange

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 4:31 pm

My husband and I met and fell in love at 16 and married when I was 19 and just after his 20th birthday. If you want to keep having your friends over, resign yourself to being very on top of the supervision- teenage hormones are real! But what's wrong with finding your spouse young? Two less people to be affected by the shidduch crisis!

5*Mom

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 4:36 pm

I agree that you should not have your friends over when DS is home, no need for drama. But I'd also point out that if this girl is as nice, sweet, smart, and wonderful as you say, they really like each other, and you know you like her family, they might actually have some future potential so stop saying things like "Ugh" and don't ruin this for the future.

Fox

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 4:40 pm

amother wrote:

I feel like you're trying to find ways to allow them to mingle, which suggests that you're not comfortable with the hashkafa that separates teenage boys and girls OR you're concerned that these friends will judge you for being stricter in these matters than they are.

If it's the former, I would urge you to stay firm in this. I'm a huge proponent of saying "yes" whenever possible, but this is not one of those occasions. Allowing your son to develop even the most innocent relationship with this girl is going down a path you don't want to walk. It's fine that he's noticed this girl; it's fine that he likely thinks about her. But supervised or limited interaction is simply going to fan the flames. Don't forbid it; just make it logistically impossible. If they're meant to be together, there will be plenty of time in a few years.

If it's the latter, then you're going to have to be a big girl and risk your friends' disapproval. As Chayalle and Debsey have pointed out, nobody in Yeshivish circles would find this odd at all. From your first post, I'd gathered that they were more-or-less Yeshivish, though perhaps not as stringent about some things as you. If they have even a passing familiarity with Yeshivish, Heimish, Chassidish, Muslim, Amish, or even rural Iowa norms, they won't be shocked.

Yes, you'll have to change the times your families get together, but plenty of people do this for all kinds of reasons. In fact, people with non-Jewish relatives are masters at finding non-Shabbos, non-Yom Tov times to see family. Thanksgiving, x-mas, MLK Birthday, Presidents' Day; Memorial Day . . . there are plenty of times when yeshivas are generally in session but people can make a short trip to see friends.

I don't know what else is going on, but if these friends are so important to you, I would expect that there would be mutual respect and even tolerance for what each family might consider the other's idiosyncrasies.

Last edited by Fox on Mon, Nov 28 2016, 4:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Lemon

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 4:41 pm

5*Mom wrote:

I don't think shidduchim should be based on 'falling in love' and stuff...they might not be good for each other

debsey

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 4:48 pm

sequoia wrote:

There's a thought.

Anyway it would be a good story to tell the grandkids Smile

amother wrote:

I don't think shidduchim should be based on 'falling in love' and stuff...they might not be good for each other

Look, if they do end up getting married, it's not the end of the world, but teenage hormones aren't always the wisest basis for choosing a life's partner.

There's a reason Romeo and Juliet is such an enduring love story. They die at 15 or so! We don't get to see the reality TV sequel where she gets pregnant and fat, and he's surly because all his friends are out partying while he has to help out with the kids and change diapers. We don't see them grow up and grow apart.

I have a close friend who met and fell in love with her DH while she was in HS (very frowned upon in her circles). What can I say? The path of true love did not run smooth..... her DS is 18, and when he started getting a bit too friendly with the neighbor's daughter, she found an Israeli yeshiva to send him to for Bais Medrash. She has no objection to the girl, per se, but she wants her son to have the opportunities she did not have. When she asked me what I thought, I totally endorsed her position (btw, she didn't tell her son that was her reasoning, but you better believe it was!)

imasinger

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 4:53 pm

Two kids who enjoy each other's company are not necessarily meant for each other, but they could be.

Yes, send DS elsewhere when they come over. Or have them when he isn't around.

There's nothing wrong with providing some space. If they are interested when they are ready, they can go out at that time. Maybe absence will make the heart grow fonder.

Or maybe they'll grow apart.

But, in either case, the key word here is "grow."

I think the wisdom of the shidduch system is in letting people mature before getting involved in love and passion and marriage.

The few years that this is an issue will pass quickly.

PinkFridge

Mon, Nov 28 2016, 7:26 pm

sequoia wrote:

They could get married in a year or two... maybe it's ok?

I know of cases like this, kids who found each other in their teens. The pair I know who's been married long term did not get married a year or two later. The parents, in concert, did all they could to stall the kids and by the time they did get married, they'd matured, had some normal late teen age+ experiences (e.g. seminary, a few years of solid learning) to enable their relationship to flourish and endure.

No, not a great idea.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Nov 29 2016, 8:08 am

My mom got married at 16, and stayed happily married for almost 50 years, until she passed away. Worse things could happen!

Romeo and Juliet didn't die because they were too young, they died because their parents tried to keep them apart. The closing monologue from the narrator makes that very clear.

Forget about trying to make your son stop thinking about girls. That's not going to happen. If not her, it will be some other girl. Instead, teach him the importance of shomer negiah, and encourage him to not start thinking about dating seriously until he's 18.

Right now, he's thinking "she's pretty, and funny, and smart". That's nice. Before he starts dating, you should be talking to him about practical things like "how will you support a family", and "where are you going to live". Bring him back down to earth a bit. You can cool him off without having to dump a bucket of ice water on his head. Sometimes a few serious talks is all it takes to adjust those rose colored glasses.

PinkFridge

Tue, Nov 29 2016, 9:53 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

My mom got married at 16, and stayed happily married for almost 50 years, until she passed away. Worse things could happen!
.

Absolutely. We should all be zoche and for longer. But how long ago did they get married?

dancingqueen

Tue, Nov 29 2016, 11:00 am

PinkFridge wrote:

I actually know plenty of high school sweethearts who are happily married with kids etc a decade later.

amother

Powderblue

Tue, Nov 29 2016, 11:43 am

Chayalle wrote:

Kind of disappointed with this. Chayalle, I always find your thoughts so insightful and full of wisdom but this really seems over the top and extreme. While I can understand feeling uncomfortable with two non sibling opposite gender teenagers sleeping in the same house (especially when that house isn't yours and the situation is not under your control), I think refusing to ever host bochrim in a "girl" house or older girls when there are bochrim in the house is over the top. You can at least give it a shot and then decide it doesn't work if your child or your guest or both get flirty or too chatty or friendly. Most likely they will have nothing to do with each other and you will have provided someone in need of a yummy warm meal. I cannot forget the lonely homesick feeling of being told by relatives or family friends or teachers that they can't host seminary girls because they have boys. Are you kidding me? I can't sit at your table for 1.5 hours and enjoy a normal family meal because why? I will corrupt your son and ruin all his years of education in 1.5 hours? If the answer is yes, please forgive me for holding a grudge but if your son is like my brothers and their friends, he wouldn't give me a second glance! And I could have really used the meal that year!
I have opposite gender neighbors and nieces and nephews and the kids are in each other's houses all the time with nothing inappropriate or uncomfortable going on. A vast vast majority of teenagers will automatically separate themselves and feel uncomfortable/uninterested in hanging out with the other gender when they get to the age where it starts becoming inappropriate in my experience. My oldest is a boy of 12. If we are with my sister whose oldests are girls (13, then 11) and first boy is only 8, now my son finds a book and reads on the couch. Last year he would join the girls playing Ticket to Ride. No one told him or warned him or discussed it, it's a normal part of maturing and feeling comfortable or uncomfortable mixing genders. If we are with my sis in law whose oldest is a boy of 11, they run off and have a blast (and stay far away from the girls). When my 12 year old neighbor comes over Friday night she hangs out with the 8 and 6 year old. My big boy goes to shul. I didn't have to discuss and make rules, he knows he belongs in shul and not playing games at home. I guess I am extreme in that I tell him to walk her home when he gets home with my husband to make sure he sees her open her door and get home safely. And if in a few years things change then I will need to watch it and limit. But not l'chatchila as a iron clad rule.

Chayalle

Tue, Nov 29 2016, 11:50 am

Powderblue, I'm sorry if this disappoints you, but it is our Hashkafa and pretty standard in our circles. The boys expect this - they wouldn't be comfortable and more importantly, neither would our daughters be comfortable (we have a standing house rule that, generally speaking, we don't host company that anyone in our family is not comfortable with). We first implemented this when our oldest was about 15, after consulting our Rav who felt that indeed, that is what we should do.

If it makes any difference to you, this rule does not extend to family. I gladly host my nephews learning at BMG or elsewhere. When my SIL moved to E"Y and her son chose to remain in yeshiva here in the US, we told him to consider our home his. In such a situation, we would only stop if there was an issue.

amother

Powderblue

Tue, Nov 29 2016, 3:19 pm

Chayalle wrote:

See while this feels like a softer stance, I think maybe that's even worse. Why is it ok to host BMG nephew but not his roommate? So in actuality you agree that it's not really a problem but has potential to become one, and thus would host a nephew until (and likely wouldn't happen at all) your daughter becomes too friendly. And truthfully this is more likely with a nephew who comes once a month than a random boy he brings along who only comes once. Please don't stop having your hungry nephew! Just reconsider other hungry boys too Smile

Chayalle

Tue, Nov 29 2016, 3:23 pm

amother wrote:

Why would it be okay for someone to raise their sons and daughters in the same family? Family gets extended to my nephew, but not to his roommate. (BTW, I've heard that BMG has really good food, so roommate is not hungry.)

That's our Hashkafa. It's one we've discussed with our Daas Torah. Likely because with family, the potential for an issue to develop is less likely than with non-family. It's more unusual for cousins to develop romantic interests (though sure, it does happen).

sequoia

Tue, Nov 29 2016, 3:24 pm

Ewwwwwwwww

Sorry. For me, cousin = brother.

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