Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
No Females in text books
Previous  1  2  3



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 30 2016, 9:45 am
amother wrote:
The book had some stick figures and some pictures of real people with their faces blurred. It was not from my class. I just happened to take a photo of a page that boys were working off in a different class.
This is not a text book made up from my school . It is from a well known publisher.
I don't live in NY/Lakewood and the school I work for is far from chassidish. I live in Chicago.
My point was that this is scary that this is a mainstream textbook that is being ordered for boys schools.

Could you maybe just say which book this is and who published it? It would make the whole story much clearer.
Back to top

amother
Floralwhite


 

Post Wed, Nov 30 2016, 9:57 am
ora_43 wrote:
I think maybe I wasn't clear. I'm saying maybe it wasn't deliberate. "Fanatic" implies a deliberate decision to do things a certain way.

Sometimes men ignore women on purpose. And way more often, men just don't notice that they are talking over women or not including pictures of women or giving women harder performance reviews or whatever else. Eg the publisher could have just hired his nephew and friends to pose for a few pictures, without even thinking once "I wonder if this will be weird for female students."
I think it would be mistaken to the point of dangerous to assume that if women were excluded, it must be those crazy fanatic Jews being fanatics again. If we want to fight sexism we need to recognize that unintentional bigotry is also an option - and unlike deliberately leaving out photos of women, it's not limited to "those" Jews, it's a problem in even the most liberal circles.

Tablepoetry I wasn't saying textbooks erased women for religious reasons. I'm talking about advanced math textbooks, in English, meant for use in (regular, non-religious) universities around the world. They don't have many examples using characters in general so the under-representation of women was very subtle - but it was there.


If men ignore or talk over women in more liberal circles, the women speak up and the men apologize and shape up. If we don't speak up, because it's so nice that our community is so careful about tznius, then men keep misbehaving and the behavior just gets worse.
Back to top

DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 30 2016, 1:02 pm
amother wrote:
The book had some stick figures and some pictures of real people with their faces blurred. It was not from my class. I just happened to take a photo of a page that boys were working off in a different class.
This is not a text book made up from my school . It is from a well known publisher.
I don't live in NY/Lakewood and the school I work for is far from chassidish. I live in Chicago.
My point was that this is scary that this is a mainstream textbook that is being ordered for boys schools.

So it is common in textbooks used in certain circles to blur or obscure the faces of all people in the photos? Why use photos at all?
Back to top

Studious




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 30 2016, 4:24 pm
Just want to add that in modern Hebrew calling a woman a "nekeiva" is rather vulgar and demeaning. Whoever authored the text doesn't seem to have a good grasp of modern Hebrew.
Back to top

amother
Periwinkle


 

Post Wed, Nov 30 2016, 4:37 pm
In BY and cheder nekeiva is the term used in dikduk. I believe it is used across the board.
and it isn't used to teach modern hebrew - its used to teach lashon hakodesh dikduk in for learning chumash.
Back to top

Studious




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 30 2016, 4:58 pm
Nekeiva means female and is used in Hebrew grammar to mean that. Pointing at some nekeiva/female is just weird. And a bit vulgar.
Back to top

Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 01 2016, 8:31 am
Even my kids' Yiddish books bought in Israel have tznius females
Back to top

ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 01 2016, 9:39 am
amother wrote:
If men ignore or talk over women in more liberal circles, the women speak up and the men apologize and shape up. If we don't speak up, because it's so nice that our community is so careful about tznius, then men keep misbehaving and the behavior just gets worse.

That is mostly untrue, and that kind of thinking is what keeps us focused on sexism in "other" groups instead of sexism we can maybe actually change.

Seriously, there are studies about this. Completely irreligious circles still have problems with unintentional gender discrimination.

Not that it's bad to condemn obvious sexism. I just think it's a bad idea to assume that any sexism MUST be a result of religious fanaticism.

If OP had led with "the book was created that way on purpose, so that boys wouldn't see pictures of girls," I'd feel differently. But it's still not entirely clear if the authors had pictures of girls on hand and didn't use them for religious reasons, or just didn't bother because in their mind why would you need girls' pictures in a book for boys.
Back to top

Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 01 2016, 10:25 am
watergirl wrote:
Read this interesting and historically accurate article that my friend published. She has a PhD in Jewish History, and her thesis was about the Bais Yaakov movement in America. She loves BY and is passionate about making the truth stand out. This is about erasing women and editing them. Its such an important piece that I think I will also start A whole separate thread featuring this article so more people see it.
http://www.thelehrhaus.com/sch.....story

Can I post this article on FB?
Back to top

bigsis144




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 01 2016, 11:47 am
Studious wrote:
Just want to add that in modern Hebrew calling a woman a "nekeiva" is rather vulgar and demeaning. Whoever authored the text doesn't seem to have a good grasp of modern Hebrew.


Calling a woman "a female" is pretty dehumanzing in English too. (I.e. using female as a noun, like "What is it with females and shopping, am I right, man?")

In a gendered language like Hebrew, you can't escape having to classify female-conjugated words somehow. How else would you explain something like "גוף שני, רבים, נקבה = אתן".
For people learning a new language, having a picture to go with a concept, like a picture of a woman to understand the new word "nekeva", is not offensive.
Back to top

DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 01 2016, 12:55 pm
I'm still waiting to see a picture of the page that is described in the original post.
Back to top

Studious




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 01 2016, 3:45 pm
But there is no picture teaching what nekeiva means. The boys are pointing to a thing/box called nekeiva. Would have been more normal to call the thing/box yalda or isha.
Back to top
Page 3 of 3 Previous  1  2  3 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Clean library books for age 13 14 Today at 2:50 pm View last post
Questions for published children books authors
by amother
2 Today at 9:23 am View last post
Books, shiurim, etc 3 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 8:19 am View last post
Books instead of therapy
by amother
39 Tue, Mar 19 2024, 9:10 pm View last post
ISO secular books for 13 year old girl
by amother
5 Mon, Mar 18 2024, 11:09 pm View last post