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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Lakewood - why is Bais yaakov high school the first choice?
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mommyla




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 10:54 am
Chayalle wrote:
When DD was in 8th grade, she chose BK as her first choice. DH and I did ALOT of research, and spoke to several people in both chinuch and professional capacities, and backed her choice (we didn't just randomly leave that choice to a 13 year old).

Well.

She got quite alot of backlash. Her teacher tried very hard to steer us elsewhere (I subsequently heard that this particular teacher tries to steer oldests to a particular school. I wonder if they pay her....).

Some lovely classmates expressed their shock and surprise that a "girl like her" is going to BK and it's "so not your type". They then snubbed her for no longer being part of their crowd (which made me glad she wasn't going to high school with them). I think the prize-winning comment came from a girl who told DD that her shoes (a nondescript pair of brown ballet flats) were "very BK'ish" and NOT "BY-ish". (We laugh about that one for comic relief.)

The most hurtful were the people at shul who made comments to DH.

There's definitely an image thing going on with regard to schools, and a whole lot of people who make choices based on "type" rather than what might be good for the individual.

However I've met alot of people like ourselves, B"H, and that gave me alot of encouragement. Including someone in our shul who ultimately made the same choice for their DD. I'm not talking here about any specific school, but when I meet people who look past the "name" and take the time to choose a place where their child will thrive, it warms my heart.


That's disgusting. I have nieces who go/went to BK (and I'm pretty sure they were in elementary school with your girls too... and their youngest sister too!), I have friends who attended it, and I've spent time there myself (professionally), and I think it's a wonderful school. When the time comes I'd definitely consider it as a first choice for my daughter(s). The atmosphere is so nice, the girls and most of the teachers are so normal and accepting, the curriculum is decent, and I believe that they turn out beautiful alumnae. Good for you for choosing the right place!
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 10:55 am
amother wrote:
What is the level of Frumkeit in Bais yaakov? Is it Frummernthan oros the same? I thought oros was the high pressured school and Bais yaakov was chilled? I am so confused about my
Options.


I don't think the level of frumkeit is different from BY to Oros, though certainly there could be an individual student in either school that is more refined, or however you define frum, then another individual in the other school.

Actually, this holds true for any school in town.....

My DD's best friends went to BY and Oros respectively, and DD went to BK. Amazingly, they all held on to a beautiful friendship that has only gotten stronger. There's so much to share when you are in three different schools.
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amother
Teal


 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 11:00 am
From the girls in seminary that went to BK with me( and I not from lkwd) they were v chilled, loud, carefree, not studious. maybe was just that group.
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amother
Teal


 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 11:00 am
And my niece said the girls in sem from b.y are v clicky
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 11:08 am
amother wrote:
From the girls in seminary that went to BK with me( and I not from lkwd) they were v chilled, loud, carefree, not studious. maybe was just that group.


The girls from BK that went to seminary with me were, like, the daughter of the Rosh Yeshiva and the Rabbanim in town. But I went to seminary over 20 years ago.....

I have seen loud, carefree, unrefined girls who attend every school in town. And refined, studious, etc...too.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 11:09 am
Chayelle how would you compare Bais yaakov to Bais yaakov of Monsey? What is nice about Bym is that they accepted all types and all backgrounds.

I heard that Shira's Devorah is so into their image that they have a million rules and make the girls and parents crazy with rules to up their image that the rules dont make them a better school and this mother told me that In Bais yaakov they know they are the best that they are not so crazy with a rule for everything. Is this true? Does Bais yaakov let the girls live and still be a highly academic school?

The mother who told me about Shira's Devorah is a proud parent of Bais Tova so it's not as if she told me this bec her daughter can't get in?
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 11:22 am
I think BY and BYM are similar academically, and also even a bit in outlook (the best school, the highest standards, etc...) but they are different where Monsey and Lakewood are different. You said it yourself - BYM accepts all types and backgrounds. Though I do think that BYM has moved to the right in recent years, especially now that Monsey has more school choices.

BY is a bit more chilled and less rule-driven than SD, for the simple reason that they can afford to be - they have their reputation established. SD is still relatively new, so they can't afford to let their image slide. I wouldn't go so far as to say that a girl that is out of the box is going to thrive in BY, though.

Every year girls switch from SD to BK. Usually because they needed a somewhat bigger box.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 11:30 am
The girls that switch from Sd to bk were they originally from Bais Tova or were they from a different school?


What makes a girl not fit into sd?
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 11:39 am
amother wrote:
The girls that switch from Sd to bk were they originally from Bais Tova or were they from a different school?


What makes a girl not fit into sd?


Both from BT and elsewhere, though I think some of the BT girls will already go to a different hs in 9th grade if they feel SD is not for them.

sometimes a teen needs space. not so many rules. She feels like getting a pair of purple shoes. Or she wants to wear a certain nutty hair accessory. She's going thru a phase. She's artsy or creative. She wants a certain type of boots. She wants to dress up on Purim.

There could be other reasons as well. Maybe academic pressure. Maybe peer pressure. Maybe they feel like a nobody in a bigger school.

I'm not an SD parent so I don't know every individual's reason for switching.

One of DD's good friends went to BT elementary. A really refined, quiet type of girl, you'd never think of her as remotely out of the box. But she says she had little areas where she wanted to express herself and feel more comfortable. She needed a fresh start for hs. So she went to BK instead of continuing to SD.

SD is an excellent school - lots of opportunities academically, very well run, very professional. They put alot into all of their programs, especially extra-curricular. They also have a certain type and image that's important to them, so it's not for everyone.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 11:45 am
On the topic of high schools - someone was once telling me how Bais Faiga should open a high school. As a parent, I sometimes wished they would. My girls were so comfortable in their 8th grade classes. I felt so bad for them, that that had to break up and they had to move on to a new school, start all over, make new friends, at a point where they were doing well, no need for change.

I met a friend whose DD was in Bais Tova. Lucky girl! She pretty much moved up to high school with her friends. So much less traumatic. Same for my friend whose girls went to BRR - they went to Bais Shaindel with most of their friends - a smooth transition with a little bit of new to spice things up a bit.

There are other girls, though, who really need a fresh start - a total break - when they get to high school. I've heard friends say that their daughter's whole personality came out, in a new environment, in a place where they could shine.

Two sides to the coin, I guess.....
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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 11:47 am
Chayalle wrote:
Both from BT and elsewhere, though I think some of the BT girls will already go to a different hs in 9th grade if they feel SD is not for them.

sometimes a teen needs space. not so many rules. She feels like getting a pair of purple shoes. Or she wants to wear a certain nutty hair accessory. She's going thru a phase. She's artsy or creative. She wants a certain type of boots. She wants to dress up on Purim.

There could be other reasons as well. Maybe academic pressure. Maybe peer pressure. Maybe they feel like a nobody in a bigger school.

I'm not an SD parent so I don't know every individual's reason for switching.

One of DD's good friends went to BT elementary. A really refined, quiet type of girl, you'd never think of her as remotely out of the box. But she says she had little areas where she wanted to express herself and feel more comfortable. She needed a fresh start for hs. So she went to BK instead of continuing to SD.

SD is an excellent school - lots of opportunities academically, very well run, very professional. They put alot into all of their programs, especially extra-curricular. They also have a certain type and image that's important to them, so it's not for everyone.


Do any Lakewood high schools allow purple shoes or nutty hair accessories?
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 11:56 am
allthingsblue wrote:
Do any Lakewood high schools allow purple shoes or nutty hair accessories?


Yes - there are high schools that won't make a big deal over these things.
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 12:03 pm
Wow! I'm not the OP but thank you chayalle!

My daughter is in 6th grade now and she says the girls are talking about where they're going for h.s. (!) And she wanted to know where we would want to send her. After picking myself up from the floor and getting over my disbelief, I told her that I don't really know but the girls I know who seem happiest in themselves are in bais kaila. So your comments supported that and that was very interesting to me! also really interesting since mrs. Schechter was my "morah" too!

As a side I just wanted to add to your comment about the right place for your kids, my boys are in YTT and we are SO happy there. I feel like its this maligned but hidden gem. And I'm so glad I got over my initial "oh its not the frummest place" ridiculousness. Its just right for us! their motto is learn with geshmack. I kind of rolled my eyes inside at that, but you know what? my boys are happy and feel that most of their teachers (nothing is perfect Smile really care about them and are happy for their growth and successes.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 12:12 pm
amother wrote:
Chayelle how would you compare Bais yaakov to Bais yaakov of Monsey? What is nice about Bym is that they accepted all types and all backgrounds.

I heard that Shira's Devorah is so into their image that they have a million rules and make the girls and parents crazy with rules to up their image that the rules dont make them a better school and this mother told me that In Bais yaakov they know they are the best that they are not so crazy with a rule for everything. Is this true? Does Bais yaakov let the girls live and still be a highly academic school?

The mother who told me about Shira's Devorah is a proud parent of Bais Tova so it's not as if she told me this bec her daughter can't get in?


Shiras Devorah doesn't have different rules than Bais Shaindel or BY. They may enforce them a bit more, but that's because the parent body is the type to try to push the envelope a bit.

If you fit in there, it's the best school - amazing teachers (they pay really well, so they can attract awesome teachers), possibly the best extra-curricular program in Lakewood (so if your daughter is more artistic than academic, she'll be able to shine) and a responsive hanhala.

That being said, it's best for a girl who is very much "in the box" of what SD wants and emphasizes. If a girl is more artistic than academic but is also a tzniusdik, non-rebellious girl who maybe is shy - SD will really go the extra mile for her. If a girl is even a bit "out of the box" it's less of a good fit. Mrs. David is not shy about saying "we are a school that has a very specific box."

It's the same with Oros - if you are a girl who is super bright, needs academic challenges, but maybe you chafe a bit at rules, Oros will work with you and be a great environment. If you are the type to chafe at rules and you're not academic, you're going to be frustrated there. They are amazing at educating brilliant girls. Less brilliant or less academically inclined girls don't like it as much.

If you're the type to do well in BY or Bais Shaindel, you already know that.

BK can accommodate a lot of different "types." The principals will not look away from serious OTD behavior - if you start to join the "hangout at the lake" crowd, its' not going to be tolerated. But if you want to wear your hair in a cool side braid with a funky accessory, it's not a big deal. If you are not academic, they do have an alternative track.

Here's my thing - there's no such thing as "the best school." There's only "the best school for my child. "
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 12:17 pm
debsey wrote:

Here's my thing - there's no such thing as "the best school." There's only "the best school for my child. "


I think this should be on a bumper sticker.
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amother
Navy


 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 3:25 pm
I graduated BY about 10 years ago. I did fine there but did not appreciate all the fakery of if you don't look like xyz and have the grades of abc, then you didn't "make it" in school. My parents had money, I was well-dressed, and very bright, so I'm not speaking from a place of pain or resentment. It just turned me off to see how people were not treated with respect for not looking just right or having the exactly right amount of brains or whatever.

I have no hard feelings toward the school or anyone there but I have no fond feelings either.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 3:28 pm
Chayalle wrote:
I think this should be on a bumper sticker.


It's not mine. I heard it in a parenting class and it stuck with me.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 3:49 pm
So someone tell me do kids not like by high school parents just send for their own prestige?

How do I decide what will be a good fit for my daughter? She happens to conform and would totally never wear another color shoes unless everyone else is. I want real academics and extra curricular activities.
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tymama




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 4:14 pm
debsey wrote:
Chayalle- when it was small and Mrs. Shechter was younger, I think that reputation was justified. But now, it's just one of those "facts." You have to look at the school as it is, not as it was.

I agree, I went to BY when there were 2 classes per grade and Mrs Shechter was very involved and also taught in 12th grade. When her husband wasn't well, the school completely changed because she didn't have the time. I definey wouldn't send my daughter now even though wouldn't send back then either. I did not like the type of girls that were there- very holier than thou type.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 4:30 pm
amother wrote:
I graduated BY about 10 years ago. I did fine there but did not appreciate all the fakery of if you don't look like xyz and have the grades of abc, then you didn't "make it" in school. My parents had money, I was well-dressed, and very bright, so I'm not speaking from a place of pain or resentment. It just turned me off to see how people were not treated with respect for not looking just right or having the exactly right amount of brains or whatever.

I have no hard feelings toward the school or anyone there but I have no fond feelings either.


Alot of girls felt that way about the high school I went to as well.....
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