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What do democrats and liberals suggest re. Terrorist threat?



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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 9:26 am
Ohio state university is just the latest in a spate of attacks and attempted attacks by radicalized Islamists, many of whom are refugees or children of immigrants.
There is obviously a problem of some sort that needs to be addressed. What do democrats and liberals suggest we do? I know they are opposed to limiting Muslim refugees allowed into the US and increasing background checks performed on them. So what do they suggest we do?
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PAMOM




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 9:58 am
No one I've heard about opposes better background checks. And the "you Democrats" attitude is divisive at a time when we Jews need to be working together.
Other than banning. immigrants as "undesirable" based solely on religion, what do you suggest? We all share a common interest in safety.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 10:15 am
allthingsblue wrote:
Ohio state university is just the latest in a spate of attacks and attempted attacks by radicalized Islamists, many of whom are refugees or children of immigrants.
There is obviously a problem of some sort that needs to be addressed. What do democrats and liberals suggest we do? I know they are opposed to limiting Muslim refugees allowed into the US and increasing background checks performed on them. So what do they suggest we do?


I'm not really sure what you're referring to as a "spate" of attacks.

Its still not entirely clear that Omar Mateen was "radicalized" or that it related to his actions. But let's assume it, for the moment.

Abdul Razak Ali Artan.

So, in 2016, two attacks. Out of a little over 3 million Muslims.

And out of how many mass shooting in the US in 2016? http://www.gunviolencearchive......oting

Why aren't we as worried when Antown Lamar Fair allegedly murders 3 people and injures another in Florida, as we are when its Abdul Razak Ali Artan?

But I agree, the terrorist attacks are bad. That's why it takes 1 to 2 YEARS to vet refugees coming from countries with terrorist issues. Which I support. And why I support gun control, so that these people cannot obtain weapons.
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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 10:20 am
I don't think I'm being divisive. I didn't say "you democrats." I am asking to hear the other viewpoint. If anything, that's the opposite of divisive. We all can learn from each other's ideas.

And as for what I suggest: I think expanding the background checks, even if it means slowing the influx of refugees, is a step.
A continued watch program where new refugees are monitored for a while- including social media postings- might also be a good idea, although I know people will yell that that is racist. Or maybe instead an incentive program where if friends/family report a radicalized friend/relative, the reporters will be rewarded in some way (and definitely not penalized for being racist, as the neighbors of the san
Bernandino terrorists were afraid of).

It may be based solely on religion, but these attackers are using religion as an excuse to attack, so it's not like islamophobia came out of nowhere. The Ohio attacker posted on Facebook that he was sick of Muslims being mistreated. Instead of attacking students and perpetuating islamophobia, a better and more productive idea would have been for him to reach out to other groups and show that he is a patriotic citizen or at least not supportive of terror etc. Instead, he cast a black stain on Muslims by claiming that the reason for such attacks are because Muslims are mistreated.
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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 10:27 am
SixOfWands wrote:
I'm not really sure what you're referring to as a "spate" of attacks.

Its still not entirely clear that Omar Mateen was "radicalized" or that it related to his actions. But let's assume it, for the moment.

Abdul Razak Ali Artan.

So, in 2016, two attacks. Out of a little over 3 million Muslims.


http://www.newsmax.com/t/newsm.....h.com

The first few are older; the last bunch of attacks are as recent as 2010 or later. They are not as widely remembered As the San Bernandino attack, but they happened.

So yes, it's a spate of attacks. And I would also consider the attacks abroad in Europe as something to be worried about, because it's not like radical Muslims like America any better than they like Europe. More refugees in Europe led to more attacks there.

And as for gun control, I certainly support heavy background checks before giving gun permits and I can't imagine for the life of me why republican politicians don't agree, and keep putting the NRA ahead of the safety of their constituents. That's not the issue here, and as we've learned in Israel and in the Ohio attack, lack of a gun won't stop a radical Muslim from attacking.
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PAMOM




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 10:28 am
1. Look at your wording in your OP--liberals and Democrats/they.

2. Since most mass attacks in the US are committed by white Christian males, I think we should ban them.

3. Turn in friends and family for a reward? H'mmmm. Seems like we've seen that in many (former) Communist and Fascist countries. Want a quick review of living in a police state where "they" can come take you or you lose your job or your security clearance because someone is jealous of you? Wants your apartment ? Needs money? Seeks publicity? Can you tell me any situation in the world where "informing" made things better?

Try again. I really am interested.
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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 10:35 am
PAMOM wrote:
1. Look at your wording in your OP--liberals and Democrats/they.

2. Since most mass attacks in the US are committed by white Christian males, I think we should ban them.

3. Turn in friends and family for a reward? H'mmmm. Seems like we've seen that in many (former) Communist and Fascist countries. Want a quick review of living in a police state where "they" can come take you or you lose your job or your security clearance because someone is jealous of you? Wants your apartment ? Needs money? Seeks publicity? Can you tell me any situation in the world where "informing" made things better?

Try again. I really am interested.


White Christian males are already here. To combat that threat, I think there needs to be greater gun control and yes, take them seriously if they threaten to kill other people.
But Muslims are actively seeking to come into this country. Why allow more potential threats in, when we can keep them out?

And as for communism/fascism- in those countries, there was never a fair review of the case.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 10:39 am
allthingsblue wrote:
http://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/704847?keywords=terror-attacks-radical-islam&year=2015&month=12&date=07&id=704847&aliaspath=%2fManage%2fArticles%2fTemplate-Wire&oref=www.k9safesearch.com

The first few are older; the last bunch of attacks are as recent as 2010 or later. They are not as widely remembered As the San Bernandino attack, but they happened.

So yes, it's a spate of attacks. And I would also consider the attacks abroad in Europe as something to be worried about, because it's not like radical Muslims like America any better than they like Europe. More refugees in Europe led to more attacks there.

And as for gun control, I certainly support heavy background checks before giving gun permits and I can't imagine for the life of me why republican politicians don't agree, and keep putting the NRA ahead of the safety of their constituents. That's not the issue here, and as we've learned in Israel and in the Ohio attack, lack of a gun won't stop a radical Muslim from attacking.


SPATE. Noun. a sudden, almost overwhelming, outpouring.

Clearly, I thought that you were referring to a recent, torrent of events. Not things that happened a decade ago. I mean, shall we discuss Dylan Roof? Sandy Hook? Aurora? Colorado Springs? Virginia Tech? Oak Creek? Or don't they matter?

And if we're discussing US policy, attacks in Europe or elsewhere aren't relevant.
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treestump




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 10:40 am
allthingsblue wrote:
White Christian males are already here. To combat that threat, I think there needs to be greater gun control and yes, take them seriously if they threaten to kill other people.
But Muslims are actively seeking to come into this country. Why allow more potential threats in, when we can keep them out?


There are many white Christian males actively seeking to come to this country. Why allow more potential threats in, when we can keep them out? Why is no one proposing that?
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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 10:48 am
SixOfWands wrote:
SPATE. Noun. a sudden, almost overwhelming, outpouring.

Clearly, I thought that you were referring to a recent, torrent of events. Not things that happened a decade ago. I mean, shall we discuss Dylan Roof? Sandy Hook? Aurora? Colorado Springs? Virginia Tech? Oak Creek? Or don't they matter?

And if we're discussing US policy, attacks in Europe or elsewhere aren't relevant.


I specified that the first few of those attacks happened a while ago but the last bunch happened recently. And yes European attacks are relevant because if their terrorists are refugees from the same places as American would be refugees are from, we have reason to be worried.

As for white Christian males: Are there the same amount of white Christian males seeking Asylum as there are Muslims? I think not.
And if you can figure out a common ground between all the motives of the white Christian terrorists, by all means, let's address that motive. But you'll find that some were crazy, some were racist, some were angry about something or other. There is no underlying common thread between them, whereas there is something in common between the Muslim attacks: many of the perpetrators gave some indication that they were attacking on behalf of their religion. Ignoring this just because we can't solve the problem of white Christian murderers is like saying, well I won't be able to fix my oven so I may as well not fix my refrigerator.
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PAMOM




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 10:49 am
I don't think this discussion is going to go anywhere that's productive so I'll bow out after this. There are millions of Christians trying to emigrate from their countries of origin. Immigrants from all countries contribute enormously to our society. Yes--screen carefully (as the State department is doing now), but there are too many contributions in too many areas by Moslem immigrants and their families for a blanket ban--and then there's the point about having ethics and a sense of justice and a sense of our reality. Moslems are just not the group involved in the majority of terrorist attacks. Check the ethnicity of large-scale attacks on college campuses, elementary schools, churches and synagogues (and mosques). Check the statistics on hate crimes and who commits them.

Ed: I see I cross-posted with others of you.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 12:18 pm
Ok I'll bite. It now takes about 2 years to screen asylum seekers, I don't know how long it takes to screen a standard immigrant. People are talking about more detailed screenings. I'm unfamiliar with just what these screenings entail or what is proposed to enhance the screening process. I hope that someone with more personal knowledge of these procedures chimes in.

The cow is out of the barn when it comes to gun control. Sure you can argue for deeper background checks prior to legal purchases. But what would these entail? Factually I can go to any gun show and buy an SKS or a Glock in the parking lot with no paperwork at all. I can go online and purchase the necessary parts to make these weapons fully automatic, and do the modification myself at the kitchen table.

We've learned from past experience legal gun purchases don't stop gun violence. Gun registration has two parts, federal compliance (for a purchase) and then if one wants a concealed carry permit it there maybe other requirements. I don't need to list what gun I'm going to carry if I apply for a concealed permit in my county. (I had one at one time and it required 2 years of residency, two personal references and a criminal background check, and fingerprints.) So for those supporting deeper background checks for weapons purchases what do you have in mind?

There is also a bit of rhetoric tied to 'see something, say something'. I've read a couple of reports of Muslim parents who have called the feds when their OTD children or relatives are reported by family members. IRRC one or two were reported by their families or Imans prior to them acting out. We still have to apply probable cause here in the US, prior to an arrest.
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flowerpower




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 1:22 pm
Well... Now that Trump is president-elect they will blame him saying he instigated all the hate. I see it a ton on social media already!
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