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Texas to Require Burial/Cremation of Fetal Remains
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 1:58 pm
As the title says ... if a woman has a D&C at a medical facility, after a miscarriage, she will be required to bury or cremate the remains.

https://www.texastribune.org/2.....crem/

Thoughts?
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treestump




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 2:01 pm
One step closer to a full theocracy...

I'm curious how this is constitutional? What happened to separation of church and state?
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 2:23 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
As the title says ... if a woman has a D&C at a medical facility, after a miscarriage, she will be required to bury or cremate the remains.

https://www.texastribune.org/2.....crem/

Thoughts?


This particular law shows how uninformed some state elected are. The products of conception after a D&C is performed are disposed of as medical waste. As tissues, they are routinely incinerated.
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 6:56 pm
From what I understand in another state where this is law, the medical establishment takes care of it. Expense and burden is only on the family who wishes to have a private burial/ceremony.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 7:03 pm
IBID: Despite intense outcry from the medical community and reproductive rights advocates, the state will prohibit hospitals, abortion clinics and other health care facilities from disposing of fetal remains in sanitary landfills, instead allowing only cremation or burial of all remains — regardless of the period of gestation.

It is against federal law to dispose of fetal remains in a sanitary landfill. They get red bagged autoclaved and then incinerated.
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bluebird




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 8:27 pm
So, it sounds like nothing will actually change in disposal procedure because remains are already incinerated. Is that right? I do have concerns:

- slippery slope to fetal personhood laws
- slippery slope to making women prove that they had a natural miscarriage (I can't imagine how horrible that would feel for a wanted pregnancy Sad)
- gives the hospital an opportunity to charge patients for the cost (that is already paid).
- gives hospitals the opportunity to insist on burial (especially Catholic hospitals due to ideology)

I just don't like the idea of making any laws at all around natural miscarriage. Why punish women for something they have no control over, and which is already probably causing emotional distress? Sad Sad Sad
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sushilover




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 8:43 pm
bluebird wrote:
So, it sounds like nothing will actually change in disposal procedure because remains are already incinerated. Is that right? I do have concerns:

- slippery slope to fetal personhood laws
- slippery slope to making women prove that they had a natural miscarriage (I can't imagine how horrible that would feel for a wanted pregnancy Sad)
- gives the hospital an opportunity to charge patients for the cost (that is already paid).
- gives hospitals the opportunity to insist on burial (especially Catholic hospitals due to ideology)

I just don't like the idea of making any laws at all around natural miscarriage. Why punish women for something they have no control over, and which is already probably causing emotional distress? Sad Sad Sad


How would this law punish women?
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bluebird




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 9:10 pm
sushilover wrote:
How would this law punish women?


This law maybe doesn't directly, but it does call out this situation and is also the start of a slippery slope as I wrote. El Salvador is an example of a possible, horrible future:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24532694
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sweetpotato




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 9:44 pm
Hashem_Yaazor wrote:
From what I understand in another state where this is law, the medical establishment takes care of it. Expense and burden is only on the family who wishes to have a private burial/ceremony.


But the expense has to be paid by someone, I.e., hospitals, government, and insurance companies, meaning medical expenses go up for everyone. This is adding an unnecessary medical procedure and expense for purely political reasons.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 9:52 pm
sweetpotato wrote:
But the expense has to be paid by someone, I.e., hospitals, government, and insurance companies, meaning medical expenses go up for everyone. This is adding an unnecessary medical procedure and expense for purely political reasons.


Hospitals have always absorbed the costs of disposing of medical waste. There is no need to now shift it to the woman who just miscarried.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 29 2016, 9:55 pm
bluebird wrote:
So, it sounds like nothing will actually change in disposal procedure because remains are already incinerated. Is that right? I do have concerns:

- slippery slope to fetal personhood laws
- slippery slope to making women prove that they had a natural miscarriage (I can't imagine how horrible that would feel for a wanted pregnancy Sad)
- gives the hospital an opportunity to charge patients for the cost (that is already paid).
- gives hospitals the opportunity to insist on burial (especially Catholic hospitals due to ideology)

I just don't like the idea of making any laws at all around natural miscarriage. Why punish women for something they have no control over, and which is already probably causing emotional distress? Sad Sad Sad


To the bold. I believe Arkansas and a few other red states had some proposed laws about a woman going to a hosp for a D&C post miscarriage and they had to have a Dr. certify it was a 'natural' miscarriage. One state proposed that all miscarriages had to be reported to the particular states board of health.
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aquad




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 30 2016, 1:43 pm
bluebird wrote:
This law maybe doesn't directly, but it does call out this situation and is also the start of a slippery slope as I wrote. El Salvador is an example of a possible, horrible future:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24532694


That article is terrifying.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 01 2016, 5:35 am
You do know (as I sadly do) that after a D&C or D&E, what the doctors remove is sent to pathology ...

Having to bury it sounds awful. And what would it really accomplish? The pathology lab presumably will just dump fetal remains in a big container and have it dumped in a hole in the ground instead of incinerating it. It's not like they'll be treating the remains with any more respect.
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bluebird




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 01 2016, 5:16 pm
aquad wrote:
That article is terrifying.


I was so appalled when I read it.

This is what the outcome of strict adherence to catholic doctrine results in (El Salvador is a catholic country). That's just reality, not bashing catholics. While not every person holds that opinion, doctrine is very strict on pro-life. No exceptions even in cases like a 10-year-old girl in Paraguay who became pregnant because her stepfather raped her. Some people in power in the US support that 100%, like Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/huc.....rtion

I bring that up not to bash, but because so many hospitals in the US are catholic and they force this doctrine onto the women they treat. If you live in an area where that's the only hospital, there's no choice. This could totally happen in the US. Already, women in those places can't get abortions in situations where halacha allows or mandates it. Women's health doesn't matter. Conservative evangelicals (not liberal/mainstream evangelicals) are the same way.

I don't want that to happen across the US. It is not good to roll back Roe vs Wade. Laws like this are how republicans get the foot in the door to deny abortions to all women regardless of circumstance when more overt laws are found unconstitutional.
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dilego




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 5:57 am
I dont know abt american law but when I had a missed at 14 weeks I wa stold to alert the chevra and they took care of it
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water_bear88




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 6:10 am
dilego wrote:
I dont know abt american law but when I had a missed at 14 weeks I wa stold to alert the chevra and they took care of it


And it's truly wonderful that you were allowed to. But there's a big difference between a 14-week second-trimester miscarriage and a 5- or 6-week blighted ovum, which I was told to treat like a period halachically. And honestly, if someone chas vehalom has a third-trimester stillborn due to some rare genetic disease, who am I to tell her she shouldn't donate her baby's body to science, when that's probably her best hope of helping her future children?

You had the religious freedom to do as your religion mandated. Don't deny that to others.
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shanie5




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 11:46 am
About a year ago there was a scandal in texas where some planned parenthood clinics were buying and/or selling fetal body parts. This may be the reason the law came to be.

Just one article that I found

http://www.lifenews.com/2016/0.....arts/
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Sadie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 11:52 am
shanie5 wrote:
About a year ago there was a scandal in texas where some planned parenthood clinics were buying and/or selling fetal body parts. This may be the reason the law came to be.

Just one article that I found

http://www.lifenews.com/2016/0.....arts/


Check your source.
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bluebird




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 12:35 pm
shanie5 wrote:
About a year ago there was a scandal in texas where some planned parenthood clinics were buying and/or selling fetal body parts. This may be the reason the law came to be.

Just one article that I found

http://www.lifenews.com/2016/0.....arts/


Try these.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/19/.....deos/
http://www.snopes.com/pp-baby-parts-sale/
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shanie5




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 12:38 pm
I didnt actually read this article-just bits and pieces. But the scandal was big news in texas.
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