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Hashem helps people who....
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amother
Teal


 

Post Fri, Dec 02 2016, 2:18 pm
It seems a few times a week I'm reading threads here and I'll see someone write about how hashem helps people who do A, B or C. Do people believe that in this world there is a clear difference between the people that are very careful with mitzvot and the people that aren't with regard to hashems response or treatment of them? Taking it a step further is there a difference between people who are very careful with all things torah and people that drive on shabbos to McDonald's? I feel hashems ways are hidden and after 120 we will understand. Until then it frankly doesn't make sense.
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 02 2016, 2:28 pm
Who says we can see a difference in this world? I believe the difference is only apparent in olam haba.
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yksraya




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 02 2016, 2:41 pm
Ppl who truly trust in hashem see miracles. I've tried it, so I know it's true.

V'haboteach bashem chesed yisovevenu.

Can't say abt observance level. Think it's more about if you connect to hashem and put your trust in him than doing good deeds but not forging a connection.

Of course miracles do happen just plain too. But when you are aware and trust you see an abundance of miracles.
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amother
Wine


 

Post Fri, Dec 02 2016, 3:20 pm
yksraya wrote:

Of course miracles do happen just plain too. But when you are aware and trust you see an abundance of miracles.


If you're the type to see miracles, you're going to see miracles.

I don't think it is at all possible to know why something happens in this world.

All those hashgacha pratis stories about the guy who davened a long shmoneh esreh and so missed the plane that crashed don't work for the guy who was makpid to daven at the neitz and so got onto the doomed flight.
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amother
Rose


 

Post Fri, Dec 02 2016, 3:21 pm
yksraya wrote:
Ppl who truly trust in hashem see miracles. I've tried it, so I know it's true.

V'haboteach bashem chesed yisovevenu.

Can't say abt observance level. Think it's more about if you connect to hashem and put your trust in him than doing good deeds but not forging a connection.

Of course miracles do happen just plain too. But when you are aware and trust you see an abundance of miracles.


Me, too.

The cynic in me calls it confirmation bias - if I believe something, I will see examples of it wherever I look. The balas bitachon I'm striving to be says Hashem is taking care of me in a way that's too obvious not to notice Smile

There are clear benefits to living life this way, so I shall try to continue doing so.
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amother
Rose


 

Post Fri, Dec 02 2016, 3:24 pm
amother wrote:
If you're the type to see miracles, you're going to see miracles.

I don't think it is at all possible to know why something happens in this world.

All those hashgacha pratis stories about the guy who davened a long shmoneh esreh and so missed the plane that crashed don't work for the guy who was makpid to daven at the neitz and so got onto the doomed flight.


But people who internalize the attitude behind the story are more likely to notice and be grateful for the good things that do happen to them.

A young girl once told me nothing good ever happens to her. It alarmed me. Not because it's true, but because she believes it. She won't even notice the good things when they happen.

At the end of the day, we choose what conclusions we reach from what we see. There are no types in this regard. Noticing the positive moments comes more easily for some people than others, depending on life experience and upbringing more than genes, but everyone can choose to do it if they want to.
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yksraya




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 02 2016, 3:30 pm
amother wrote:
If you're the type to see miracles, you're going to see miracles.

I don't think it is at all possible to know why something happens in this world.

All those hashgacha pratis stories about the guy who davened a long shmoneh esreh and so missed the plane that crashed don't work for the guy who was makpid to daven at the neitz and so got onto the doomed flight.

It's not a type of person. If for guy 1 was still bashert to live, he was spared by davening longer. It was time for guy 2 to go back to shemayim so he did hop on that flight.

When I say miracles, I do not refer to life/death type. Rather day to day miracles especially when going through something and then miracles just happen which would not make sense b'derech hateiva, so it's clearly miracles.
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yksraya




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 02 2016, 3:33 pm
amother wrote:
But people who internalize the attitude behind the story are more likely to notice and be grateful for the good things that do happen to them.

A young girl once told me nothing good ever happens to her. It alarmed me. Not because it's true, but because she believes it. She won't even notice the good things when they happen.

At the end of the day, we choose what conclusions we reach from what we see. There are no types in this regard. Noticing the positive moments comes more easily for some people than others, depending on life experience and upbringing more than genes, but everyone can choose to do it if they want to.

Or if they worked on their emunah and connection to hashem, despite having a tough life.
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thunderstorm




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 02 2016, 3:36 pm
Hashem helps EVERYONE of us for we are his beloved children. Some of us are just more aware of his love than others . Whether we are good or bad , we are still his children and he loves us regardless and always does what's best for you. It takes belief in that to see the goodness and to appreciate all the miracles we experience daily
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 02 2016, 4:34 pm
Very wrong way to think there is discernible reward or punishment hat is obviously us and apparent. You then come very close to believing that wealth or other good fortune is a sign of being among the elect that is favored and therefore are justified in think that the poor or others who are suffering from bs luck in any form somehow deserved it because they did something wrong.

There is no simple cause and effect. How could there be or else every prayer would be answered.
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MitzadSheini




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Dec 03 2016, 4:19 pm
There is what happens and there is how you experience it.

We all know the story of what the Romans did to R Akiva. And we say "this is the Torah, and this is it's reward?". And we shudder and don't want to think about it, and don't understand.

But R Akiva himself experienced great joy at that moment because he saw it as the opportunity to so totally totally serve Hashem.

This is the gift of Emunah. Which cones from a person STRIVING for it. The Romans were going to do what they were going to do. But R Akiva's greatness allowed him to experience it as an OPPORTUNITY rather than a tragedy.

So I would say that yes Hashem helps people who trust in Him by making it easier to cope with the difficulties and hardships that come in life. But it does not mean that such people will have an easier life, or a life where Hashem's involvement in their life will be discernable to OTHER people.
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tf




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Dec 03 2016, 10:07 pm
amother wrote:
If you're the type to see miracles, you're going to see miracles.

I don't think it is at all possible to know why something happens in this world.

All those hashgacha pratis stories about the guy who davened a long shmoneh esreh and so missed the plane that crashed don't work for the guy who was makpid to daven at the neitz and so got onto the doomed flight.


If the person who is makpid to daven at the netz is a real mamin in Hashem, he will see nissim if he looks for it. He will only go to the doomed flight if it is bashert from before he was born that this tragedy should ch'v happen to him. His tefillos and dikduk bemitzvohs will help him. He will be mispallel and the tragedy will not happen if he is zoiche.

Yes, The main thing is to connect to Hashem. Trying hard and failing happens to everyone, so this is not the sole reason why a person will be punished. Teshuva is the answer. Connection to Hashem helps us eventually see HIS presence. Seeing his presence helps us see miracles. Boasting about seeing Hashem and His miracles, causes miracles not to happen again until teshuva holds us back from boasting about it.

Yes, I have seen it happen countless times, but I would NEVER talk about it in the open. I have learned it the hard way. Here I allowed myself to write because hopefully nobody knows who I am. Connecting is very very difficult. It takes a lot of hard work to look for and find Hashem, and then eventually be able to feel his presence. Today we live in a time of Hasturas Punim. Hashem hides from our view. We need to go searching for Him. Even if we find Him, we cannot talk about it, for the person next to us might not be ready to meet Him. I found that When we talk about it, others minimize the quality and quantity that we see. They don't see it the way we see it. They may see it differently and be on a different level, maybe higher or lower. It is not for us to judge or contemplate.

The subject is extremely complex, but is reachable. If you don't see it the way I see it, so be it. I will not argue with you.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Sat, Dec 03 2016, 10:17 pm
According to Rabbi Avigdor Miller, Z"TL, if you thank Hashem for the good things He does for you then Hashem does more good things for you. I've seen this happen countless times but I don't want to elaborate.
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amother
Wine


 

Post Sat, Dec 03 2016, 10:21 pm
tf wrote:
If the person who is makpid to daven at the netz is a real mamin in Hashem, he will see nissim if he looks for it. He will only go to the doomed flight if it is bashert from before he was born that this tragedy should ch'v happen to him. His tefillos and dikduk bemitzvohs will help him. He will be mispallel and the tragedy will not happen if he is zoiche.

Yes, The main thing is to connect to Hashem. Trying hard and failing happens to everyone, so this is not the sole reason why a person will be punished. Teshuva is the answer. Connection to Hashem helps us eventually see HIS presence. Seeing his presence helps us see miracles. Boasting about seeing Hashem and His miracles, causes miracles not to happen again until teshuva holds us back from boasting about it.

Yes, I have seen it happen countless times, but I would NEVER talk about it in the open. I have learned it the hard way. Here I allowed myself to write because hopefully nobody knows who I am. Connecting is very very difficult. It takes a lot of hard work to look for and find Hashem, and then eventually be able to feel his presence. Today we live in a time of Hasturas Punim. Hashem hides from our view. We need to go searching for Him. Even if we find Him, we cannot talk about it, for the person next to us might not be ready to meet Him. I found that When we talk about it, others minimize the quality and quantity that we see. They don't see it the way we see it. They may see it differently and be on a different level, maybe higher or lower. It is not for us to judge or contemplate.

The subject is extremely complex, but is reachable. If you don't see it the way I see it, so be it. I will not argue with you.


You're saying that you have figured out how to reach Hashem but ordinary folks haven't and couldn't possibly reach your madreiga?!?

I agree that if you look at the world through the lens of gratitude, you can see wonderful things for which you should give thanks. I don't think you can possibly connect the dots between your actions and what happens to you.
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tf




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 12:07 am
amother wrote:
You're saying that you have figured out how to reach Hashem but ordinary folks haven't and couldn't possibly reach your madreiga?!?

I agree that if you look at the world through the lens of gratitude, you can see wonderful things for which you should give thanks. I don't think you can possibly connect the dots between your actions and what happens to you.


I am NOT saying that it depends on the madreiga. I AM saying that everyone can get there. Everyone in their own way, for what they are looking for. If I am looking for one thing, and a person tells me Hashem is found somewhere else, we can start arguing about it. Hashem is everywhere. I see Him here, and you see Him there. We are still on the same madreiga, even though we have our lens on a different aspect.
Gratitude is a separate story. It still is a veeery difficult subject for us tiny little mentchies to contemplate on a deep level.
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Hatemywig




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 12:11 am
help themselves!
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amother
Wine


 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 3:12 am
tf wrote:
I am NOT saying that it depends on the madreiga. I AM saying that everyone can get there. Everyone in their own way, for what they are looking for. If I am looking for one thing, and a person tells me Hashem is found somewhere else, we can start arguing about it. Hashem is everywhere. I see Him here, and you see Him there. We are still on the same madreiga, even though we have our lens on a different aspect.
Gratitude is a separate story. It still is a veeery difficult subject for us tiny little mentchies to contemplate on a deep level.


I found this unclear.

Where's the "there" we can all reach? I just don't get what you are trying to say.

Why is gratitude so difficult for to contemplate? Even young children know what it means to see the good in their lives and to thank Hashem.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 7:53 am
I'm with mitzad hasheini, amother, etc.:

We have to define help people. This isn't some magical thinking if I do x then Hashem will do y.

But if people believe in Hashem, can say ashrei ha'am shecacha lo, fortunate is the people who can say, this is the way it is, not in a fatalistic way but in making Hashem's ratzon theirs; who can say Modim d'rabanan and truly believe that Hashem giving us the drive to thank Him is something to thank Him for; who want to go through life feeling a vibrant connection to Hashem, then yes, Hashem will help people live happy lives.

There's the famous story of Rav Zushe. Someone went to his rebbe and asked, how can I learn to love and thank Hashem even if bad things are happening? And the rebbe told him, I can't answer, go to Rav Zushe. So he travels to Rav Zushe and finds this man living in a hovel with all sorts of tzaros and thinks, ah, finally, an answer, and he asks his question. Rav Zushe says, you've come to the wrong address. Nothing bad has ever happened to me.

ETA: I'm reading this over and wish (as usual ;-D) that I'd taken to time to organize my thoughts a bit more. I'm sure I'll have more to say but I want to add this: Chas v'shalom I'm denying that people see tremendous hashgacha and even yeshuos in their lives and they may even see direct cause and effect. But there is a danger that one might look at others who are NOT seeing such yeshuos, who are even undergoing tzaros, and wonder if they're lacking in something that such things could happen to them. Because we know how totally bogus that is - just look at some incredibly great people who have suffered tremendous in life. Gotta run.
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tf




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 8:48 am
amother wrote:
I found this unclear.

Where's the "there" we can all reach? I just don't get what you are trying to say.

Why is gratitude so difficult for to contemplate? Even young children know what it means to see the good in their lives and to thank Hashem.


This is a topic that mine will be unclear to you and yours will be unclear to me.
We all have to work hard on it in our own way. There's no clear cut answer, just plain hard work.
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amother
Wine


 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 8:54 am
tf wrote:
This is a topic that mine will be unclear to you and yours will be unclear to me.
We all have to work hard on it in our own way. There's no clear cut answer, just plain hard work.


??.
I'm happy to explain anything I said that wasn't clear to you. I truly do not understand what you are trying to say.
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