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I lit a candle for R'Mendel of Rimonov &did not see a yeshua



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enter




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 6:04 pm
....Actually, my Mom used to go around and light these candles for forty days, multiple, multiple times - to no avail. The thing she asked for (my older sister, married) still did not happen.

Plus, she light candles for many more people. Plus, she said shir hashirim and perek shira and all sorts of other prayers for forty days. Plus, she gave tzedekah to kupat l'ir and had all the great people pray for her. .. .... Plus, and plus, and plus - but, nothing.

Conclusion? You just do your little part in this big world, and leave results alone. Praying is fine, doing your part is taking personal responsibility, but IMO many of these "segulas" are just excuses as to why or how you don't have to accept God's will or go with the flow of life. Of course you have to do your part. But I think more stress needs to go on acceptance and good ol' direct connection with the Spirit of the Universe (God) and not the Spirits of the Dead.

(For those of you that did not see this the earlier thread, this is in direct response to: http://www.imamother.com/forum.....08224)
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yksraya




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 6:15 pm
Segulahs aren't what "will definetely help". It can sometimes help. However, sometimes if something is a gezeira or something is meant to be differant or as in cases of shiduchim it might still not be the right time, the segulah won't yield results. But every teffila does something. Even if we don't see it in this world, it did something for us or for the one we prayed.
I personally never saw anything after lighting the candle. I did however say shir hashirim every friday night for 40 wks, a few times already and some of the ppl I prayed for were bh helped (of course I can't know for sure it was my tefilahs, but maybe it was). Also, sometimes I prayed for something for others, and was helped with things I needed!
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 6:33 pm
No tefilla goes unwasted.
The issue is when people do segulos as shortcuts, instead of the hard work of connecting to Hashem through tefilla. When we daven, we know that sometimes the answer is "No/ not yet/ whatever but your tefilla is so precious to Me and will yield positive results of some sort, maybe not even in your lifetime, and most important, it's connecting you to Me." The problem with many segulos is that people doing them expect to see clear cause and effect, like putting a coin in a vending machine, and then get disillusioned when it doesn't happen.

I'm not saying all segulos are bogus, but when one employs a segula it should be seen as complimentary medicine, not alternative, and not be the primary hishtadlus.
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yksraya




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 7:24 pm
Pink fridge lol abt the vending machine!!! That too is more often broken than not and were lucky of the coins come back out...

there are many segulahs that aren't even for real, just old wives tales.
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amother
Seafoam


 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 8:19 pm
yksraya wrote:
Pink fridge lol abt the vending machine!!! That too is more often broken than not and were lucky of the coins come back out...

there are many segulahs that aren't even for real, just old wives tales.

People did have yeshuos with this segula like some of my relatives. Its a segula. Its not God.
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amother
Wheat


 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 8:53 pm
yksraya wrote:
Segulahs aren't what "will definetely help". It can sometimes help. However, sometimes if something is a gezeira or something is meant to be differant or as in cases of shiduchim it might still not be the right time, the segulah won't yield results. But every teffila does something. Even if we don't see it in this world, it did something for us or for the one we prayed.
I personally never saw anything after lighting the candle. I did however say shir hashirim every friday night for 40 wks, a few times already and some of the ppl I prayed for were bh helped (of course I can't know for sure it was my tefilahs, but maybe it was). Also, sometimes I prayed for something for others, and was helped with things I needed!


Ok, so you say segulas aren't something that will "definitely" help. Can you estimate how often they actually do help? 10% of the time? 25%? 50%? Is it reasonable to say that people that are married have performed segulas more than older singles? I wish there was some kind of statistics that can substantiate these sort of things.
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amother
Wheat


 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 9:01 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
No tefilla goes unwasted.
The issue is when people do segulos as shortcuts, instead of the hard work of connecting to Hashem through tefilla. When we daven, we know that sometimes the answer is "No/ not yet/ whatever but your tefilla is so precious to Me and will yield positive results of some sort, maybe not even in your lifetime, and most important, it's connecting you to Me." The problem with many segulos is that people doing them expect to see clear cause and effect, like putting a coin in a vending machine, and then get disillusioned when it doesn't happen.

I'm not saying all segulos are bogus, but when one employs a segula it should be seen as complimentary medicine, not alternative, and not be the primary hishtadlus.


Your implying that the segulas often don't work because people skip the "hard work". Kind of like taking a dietary supplement and eating whatever you want and expect to lose weight. The truth is that often people that are putting in the hard work are suffering. The ones that are davening, doing chessed, and giving tzedakah are the ones that, for example, need shidduchim. And to say "no tefilah is wasted" is kind of hollow. If people are suffering with illness, shidduchim and other serious life problems, when they are davening for the yeshua, they want the yeshua. Nobody feels good about their 40 yr ols single daughtet and figures that at least the tefilos helped someone else. How do I know that? And even if its true, its a very small consolation to be honest.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 9:42 pm
amother wrote:
Your implying that the segulas often don't work because people skip the "hard work". Kind of like taking a dietary supplement and eating whatever you want and expect to lose weight. The truth is that often people that are putting in the hard work are suffering. The ones that are davening, doing chessed, and giving tzedakah are the ones that, for example, need shidduchim. And to say "no tefilah is wasted" is kind of hollow. If people are suffering with illness, shidduchim and other serious life problems, when they are davening for the yeshua, they want the yeshua. Nobody feels good about their 40 yr ols single daughtet and figures that at least the tefilos helped someone else. How do I know that? And even if its true, its a very small consolation to be honest.


Hugs. Believe me, I understand. I was a kid when my mother died from cancer. It took me a long time to be able to say tehillim again and it was only after I was introduced to the "understanding unanswered prayers" concept. (This predated the excellent shiur by Rabbi Nissel of the same title.)

And I also agree that many people doing segulos have done and are concurrently doing the hard work. Sadly though, many of the segulos purveyors are preying on the vulnerable, and there is an attitude of being able to outsource the hard work to surrogate learners and daveners.

I do not believe that segulos work "better" for people who are also doing the hard work. I am not Hashem's accountant. I cannot believe that that's how it works though. We just don't know.

I don't know if you've had the opportunity to hear Tammy Karmel. I don't like spending other people's money: there is a hefty fee for her shiurim and even if there is some community sponsorship usually attendees have to pay something. But it is tremendously worth it, and I recommend trying to go to a full series. She has ALS and before she was incapacitated she recorded a number of her shiurim. I have no idea how many tefillos were said and tears shed, how much tzedaka given, how many maasim tovim done by countless people in her zechus, but to us, it didn't "work". (Yet? Maybe there's something in the pipeline before it's too late for her? Who knows.) You can be sure that she is worthy and did, and continues to do, all the hard work humanly possible. Having heard her, her avodah seems superhuman, though possibly attainable for us, if we try.

I'm not implying anything about them working with or without hard work. I'm implying that segulos are comforting, they enable us to feel like we're doing something, and they can be very valuable actions in and of themselves. (E.g. say Shir Hashirim for 40 days and you will feel an appreciation of the sefer and a level of connection to the RBSH'O. Great thing, even if no one gets engaged.) But no one should ever feel that they haven't exhausted all their possibilities if they opt to eschew them, or be very discriminating in the ones they choose to do.
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yksraya




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 10:37 pm
amother wrote:
People did have yeshuos with this segula like some of my relatives. Its a segula. Its not God.

I did not say they didn't. I wasn't refering to this specific segulah.
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yksraya




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 04 2016, 10:39 pm
amother wrote:
Ok, so you say segulas aren't something that will "definitely" help. Can you estimate how often they actually do help? 10% of the time? 25%? 50%? Is it reasonable to say that people that are married have performed segulas more than older singles? I wish there was some kind of statistics that can substantiate these sort of things.

Dunno estimates. I don't think every segulah is even really a segulah.
The one of saying shir hashirim for "others" has personally helped.
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