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Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children
Cheder made DS write a letter to pardon a criminal
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 5:22 pm
DS (12) came home from cheder today saying that his class wrote letters to the president asking him to pardon Mordechai Samet. DS said he was uncomfortable writing it but he didn't want to get in trouble so of course he went along with it. The rebbe told the class that this man committed a white collar crime (read: not so bad) and was sentenced to 27 years.

I feel that the cheder has no business using my child as a political pawn but if it will, then Rubashkin is a much better cause.

What do you all think?
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 5:30 pm
You are the one paying the big bucks. I detest the manipulation of the students regardless of the party to be pardoned. It's bullying, plain and simple.
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MitzadSheini




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 5:33 pm
Agree with MY even if you are not paying, based on the story as you told it. (which I have no reason to doubt btw)
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amother
Brunette


 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 5:34 pm
I think it's despicable given the nature of the crimes. These were real people that these criminals swindled with their fake lotteries and other crimes. Real people were hurt. Why is this in any way excusable? Are they trying to teach their students that crime is ok? I would also be incensed.
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 5:54 pm
There's nothing wrong with writing letters in favor of pardons. It's a time honored tradition. I would be concerned whether the kids really knew and understood the purpose of the campaign and who they were writing about. And even if it may have technically been ok to opt out, your som obviously got that vibe that it wasn't really an option. When I was in high school I wrote letters to try and get Pollard pardoned. But this was something some students chose to do after learning seriously about the situation and it wasn't coming from the school but rather from politically engaged students.
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Doublestroller




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 5:59 pm
my daughters class wrote a letter too. I didn't think much into it. I just feel although he did do big crimes he still doesn't deserve 27 years in prison.
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 6:01 pm
I wouldn't mind if it was done in an educational context. They could have taught the kids about the political system, presidential power to pardon, popular activism, civic involvement, and even "just" the format for a formal letter.

Since the goal wasn't education, they have no business spending class time on this.
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 6:03 pm
Doublestroller wrote:
my daughters class wrote a letter too. I didn't think much into it. I just feel although he did do big crimes he still doesn't deserve 27 years in prison.


I'm not sure where I stand on this issue because I don't know enough about the case... but isn't this the point? The kids were used. They likely had very little idea of what they were doing.

OP please tell me they didn't simply copy sentences off the board. I hope they at least practiced their writing skills.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 6:10 pm
youngishbear wrote:
I'm not sure where I stand on this issue because I don't know enough about the case... but isn't this the point? The kids were used. They likely had very little idea of what they were doing.

OP please tell me they didn't simply copy sentences off the board. I hope they at least practiced their writing skills.


Unless Obama can read Yiddish then no, they weren't practicing their English writing skills. The cheder doesn't have English for boys this age anymore.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 6:13 pm
youngishbear wrote:
I wouldn't mind if it was done in an educational context. They could have taught the kids about the political system, presidential power to pardon, popular activism, civic involvement, and even "just" the format for a formal letter.

Since the goal wasn't education, they have no business spending class time on this.


Yes this could work if the students were permitted to research the internet and pick a criminal case on their own. But we all know that is not going to happen. Do they even have US govt. classes if they quit teaching English at age 12?
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 6:14 pm
amother wrote:
Unless Obama can read Yiddish then no, they weren't practicing their English writing skills. The cheder doesn't have English for boys this age anymore.


BTW, AFAIK, the mitzvah of pidyon shvuim does not require the person to be innocent.

However, making kids do a 'mitzvah' (if we can even agree on the term) that they don't understand and may not agree with, during class time, without parental consent, is just not fair.

Not the first thing I would take up with an administration like that, though. I'd start with campaigning for some more English classes...
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Notsobusy




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 6:16 pm
amother wrote:
Unless Obama can read Yiddish then no, they weren't practicing their English writing skills. The cheder doesn't have English for boys this age anymore.


Then what was the point? Seriously not understanding here.
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cm




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 6:22 pm
If they are learning about presidential pardons in civics class, and had the opportunity to choose someone to write about, then this is sort of appropriate for school.

To push a political agenda on the students - oy vey!
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 6:24 pm
amother wrote:
Unless Obama can read Yiddish then no, they weren't practicing their English writing skills. The cheder doesn't have English for boys this age anymore.


Not sure I understand... So these letters were not actually sent out? Was it a creative writing class in Yiddish? How would this make your child a political pawn?
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yksraya




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 6:47 pm
I would be glad if my kids did sucha pidyun sheviim!!!

I don't see what your problem here is. They did mention to the kids that he is sitting for a white collar crime. That means they did not say he is innocent.

He got enough jail time already and deserves a second chance. He is a father of many kids and grandkids, they want to spend time with their dad! He did express remorse for his actions. And 27 yrs is a long time.

And I don't think they actually forced him to write it. Rather they just made it a cheder/school program to teach pidyun sheviim to the kids.
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 6:51 pm
tigerwife wrote:
Not sure I understand... So these letters were not actually sent out? Was it a creative writing class in Yiddish? How would this make your child a political pawn?


I think she was responding to me. I wrote that I hope the kids didn't simply copy the words off the board.

I think she is saying that's what they did.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 6:51 pm
tigerwife wrote:
Not sure I understand... So these letters were not actually sent out? Was it a creative writing class in Yiddish? How would this make your child a political pawn?


The boys had to follow a template and write a letter to the president asking him to free Samet. The letters were not theoretical, they were real. The cheder is mailing them out. The boys were told what the crime was and that he has been sitting in jail for 14 years. They were instructed not to indicate that he's innocent anywhere in the letter, just to ask for a pardon. I don't know how many boys wrote coherent letters but I know DS did. He says most of his class writes well. I believe him because most of these boys speak English at home.

It just doesn't sit well with me I guess.
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 6:52 pm
yksraya wrote:
I would be glad if my kids did sucha pidyun sheviim!!!

I don't see what your problem here is. They did mention to the kids that he is sitting for a white collar crime. That means they did not say he is innocent.

He got enough jail time already and deserves a second chance. He is a father of many kids and grandkids, they want to spend time with their dad! He did express remorse for his actions. And 27 yrs is a long time.

And I don't think they actually forced him to write it. Rather they just made it a cheder/school program to teach pidyun sheviim to the kids.


Did they?

That's not bad, then. It doesn't have to have secular educational value. If the kids learned something, anything, that's fine.
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 6:54 pm
amother wrote:
The boys had to follow a template and write a letter to the president asking him to free Samet. The letters were not theoretical, they were real. The cheder is mailing them out. The boys were told what the crime was and that he has been sitting in jail for 14 years. They were instructed not to indicate that he's innocent anywhere in the letter, just to ask for a pardon. I don't know how many boys wrote coherent letters but I know DS did. He says most of his class writes well. I believe him because for these boys all speak English at home.

It just doesn't sit well with me I guess.


Doesn't a request for a pardon imply an admission of guilt?

ETA: Following a template, using their own word, is better than I expected
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Mon, Dec 05 2016, 7:13 pm
R' M Samet committed a similar crime to Rubashkin. Something with money. Anything bad? He didnt abuse or murder anyone.
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