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The real Torah view about women?!
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morningsickness




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 9:44 am
So, I've been an avid reader of this blog for a while because I enjoy the advocacy he does in the feild of child abuse. This man is considered a Talmid Chacham and is endorsed (or at least his books are) by some well-known Rabbanim, including Rabbi Zev Leff. He also is well educated academically.
However, his posts on the topic of women and their role in Judiasm really, really bother me. They bother me so much because they confuse me. He brings a lot of sources, and I feel like secretely, this is really how the torah, or the torah scholars, view women, and all the nice fluffy stuff they taught us in school was just a cover-up.

Anyone care to enlighten me, help me understand what the TRUE torah view is, and how can such big torah scholars view women in such a narrow-minded, stereo-typical, stifling way?

http://daattorah.blogspot.com/......html
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 9:49 am
There's a thread going on about it - http://www.imamother.com/forum.....icle.

I think the answer is that everyone is a product of their time to some extent. In many societies years ago, women were considered property, feeble minded and inferior to men.

There are people who reject this, and say that everything every gadol has said since the beginning of time is timeless; I think that is dangerous, because how do we reconcile the many racist and misogynistic views of many meforshim with the morals we have today?
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morningsickness




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 9:55 am
Thanks.. But he's quoted sources like Rashi, Rav Dessler and R' S.R.Hirsch, not random commentators. How could they write things like that?
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GreenEyes26




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 9:57 am
morningsickness wrote:
Thanks.. But he's quoted sources like Rashi, Rav Dessler and R' S.R.Hirsch, not random commentators. How could they write things like that?


They were still men of their time. Things were different then. Take what you can, reject the rest, and move on. As I said on the other thread, no man is infalliable. No meforesh is timeless. Torah is timeless, not humans.
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morningsickness




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:03 am
Thanks.. But he's quoted sources like Rashi, Rav Dessler and R' S.R.Hirsch, not random commentators. How could they write things like that?
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dimyona




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:17 am
Unfortunately, I think it's bothering you because you know that you're actually right. Most of the pro women thoughts that girls are taught these days were developed as apologetics in the past couple of centuries as women's status was raised in the outside world. Both the sexist statements as well as the "women are more spiritual" fluff are products of their time.

There's a reason women can't be witnesses, can be married off by their fathers as twelve year olds, don't inherit money unless there's a halachic will, and can't pasken shailos. And it's not because the Torah views women as equally intelligent or capable.

Even rabbanim that are admired in modern communities, like Rav Kook, were opposed to women's suffrage and claimed that women are a lower level of creation and do not have a neshama!

https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/a.....isaac

I'm sorry to have to break this to you Sad.
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GreenEyes26




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:21 am
dimyona wrote:
Unfortunately, I think it's bothering you because you know that you're actually right. Most of the pro women thoughts that girls are taught these days were developed as apologetics in the past couple of centuries as women's status was raised in the outside world. Both the sexist statements as well as the "women are more spiritual" fluff are products of their time.

There's a reason women can't be witnesses, can be married off by their fathers as twelve year olds, don't inherit money unless there's a halachic will, and can't pasken shailos. And it's not because the Torah views women as equally intelligent or capable.

Even rabbanim that are admired in modern communities, like Rav Kook, were opposed to women's suffrage and claimed that women are a lower level of creation and do not have a neshama!

https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/a.....isaac

I'm sorry to have to break this to you Sad.


Yeah, it was a quite a shock for me when I finally surfaced from my BY-brainwashing bubble and realized how Judaism actually views its women.

But that's ok, I've switched a path that recognizes change is needed (or at least, is trying). If we don't change and move forward, we're going to lose people. We've already started, actually. I wouldn't blame anyone one bit for leaving Judaism as it's practiced in some communities, in this day and age. Honestly, it boggled my mind why anyone would want to be a BT. But that's a topic for another thread.
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morningsickness




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:21 am
You hit the nail on the head!

so where do I go from here? Like, I believe 100% in Hashem and that he has a masterplan and all he does is good. But I feel so small whaen I come across things like this. How do I stay religious and fully believing, if that means accepting that the Torah views me as a pathetic, mindless creature who is second class?
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:24 am
G-d created woman because he saw that man was not complete. We are two haves of one whole . I have never been made to feel inferior in Judaism. I feel bad for those of you who have.
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dimyona




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:25 am
morningsickness wrote:
You hit the nail on the head!

so where do I go from here? Like, I believe 100% in Hashem and that he has a masterplan and all he does is good. But I feel so small whaen I come across things like this. How do I stay religious and fully believing, if that means accepting that the Torah views me as a pathetic, mindless creature who is second class?


It's hard. Any frum women that accepts this will need to live with a certain amount of cognitive dissonance.

I have not been able to resolve this, although if you choose too, there are plenty of very convincing apologetics that have helped me in the past for a while! The chabad view comparing women to the moon is a pretty good one. I don't have time to pull the source now, but the basic concept is that the women lost some light (power) during the story of bereishis, and now that women are increasing in prominence it's a sign of moshiach coming, when the sun and moon will shine equally.
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GreenEyes26




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:26 am
morningsickness wrote:
You hit the nail on the head!

so where do I go from here? Like, I believe 100% in Hashem and that he has a masterplan and all he does is good. But I feel so small whaen I come across things like this. How do I stay religious and fully believing, if that means accepting that the Torah views me as a pathetic, mindless creature who is second class?


It's important to realize that it's not the TORAH or Gd Himself that views you as second-class (for the most part), but the men who comment, rule on, and parse the Torah. Rulings from rabbonim from centuries ago should not be taken at face value any longer. Things must be filtered through a modern lens.

Unfortunately, Chareidi communities cannot, and will not, do that, for fear of losing "tradition". (Which, as I have said before, are mostly fairly modern "traditions" from the last 100 years or so.)

I still struggle, but the best thing for me (and eventually, my husband) was to break away from anything remotely related to the chareidi mindset and come at our religion from a totally new direction, one that values intelligence and self-awareness in religious practice, more than blindly following rules. I feel closer to Gd and more appreciative of my lifestyle. There are, of course, still some things I can't reconcile, but they don't matter to me enough to leave. There's definitely still an element of blind faith. But this works for me for now. But I can't blame anyone who would leave because of these reasons - they're very valid.
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:29 am
morningsickness wrote:
You hit the nail on the head!

so where do I go from here? Like, I believe 100% in Hashem and that he has a masterplan and all he does is good. But I feel so small whaen I come across things like this. How do I stay religious and fully believing, if that means accepting that the Torah views me as a pathetic, mindless creature who is second class?


Good question! A question that rationalist Judaism tries to deal with. There are some good articles on www.theTorah.com that address this and other parts of the Torah which go against our morals and values.
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:33 am
GreenEyes26 wrote:
It's important to realize that it's not the TORAH or Gd Himself that views you as second-class (for the most part), but the men who comment, rule on, and parse the Torah. Rulings from rabbonim from centuries ago should not be taken at face value any longer. Things must be filtered through a modern lens.


Hmmm... there are definitely parts of the Torah which do, and that is way more difficult to explain than rabbonim's interpretations.
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GreenEyes26




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:36 am
mommy3b2c wrote:
G-d created woman because he saw that man was not complete. We are two haves of one whole . I have never been made to feel inferior in Judaism. I feel bad for those of you who have.


With all due respect, this argument drives me crazy. I totally believe that you've never been made to feel inferior. Honestly, I have never either been openly discriminated against because of my gender in Judaism. But to say that on a basic, fundamental level, Orthodox (Chareidi) Judaism isn't completely misogynistic, is to ignore basic facts. You don't have to be heckled in the street to realize this.

Almost every Chareidi family member, community friend or person I've met has been wonderful. That doesn't mean the ideology they ascribe to isn't riddled with patriarchal holes.
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:37 am
The only thing that remotely satisfied many of my questions regarding this was this article:

http://thetorah.com/the-delibe.....orah/ (I left out the sources when I copied it.)

The Deliberately Flawed Divine Torah
The Theology of the Halachic Loophole

Rabbi Dr. Nathan Lopes Cardozo

Rabbi Akiva Eiger’s Responsa. Bar Ilan University.

I believe that the Torah is min hashamayim (“from heaven”) and that its every word is divine and holy. But I do not believe that the Torah is (always) historically true (sometimes it seems like Divine fiction), or that it is uninfluenced by external sources. On top of this, I am reminded of the observation by the famous Chassidic leader Rabbi Menachem Mendel of Rimanov, who suggested that the children of Israel heard only the Alef of Anochi of the Ten Commandments, which means that they did not hear anything since one cannot pronounce the Alef![1]

Nor do I believe that its laws, literally interpreted, are all morally acceptable. They are not. Rather, I believe that the Torah is often morally, deeply, and deliberately flawed, and that furthermore, God Himself intentionally made it flawed.

It is the latter issue that I will discuss in this essay.[2]

Far-fetched Arguments and Halachic Loopholes

My belief that the Torah is morally flawed is closely related to an altogether different topic: The “halachic loophole,” which Chazal and later poskim (halachic decisors) frequently used to solve halachic problems.

Many of these loopholes are legal fictions the Rabbis employed to deliberately ignore straightforward biblical pesukim (verses) or halachic standards. In doing so, they often made use of far-fetched arguments and twists that violated the very intent of these verses or halachic norms, and they seem to have done so with no compunctions and without it becoming a major issue. To the Rabbis, this method was seemingly a normal procedure whenever it was “convenient” to achieve their goals. To us, however, some of these loopholes are not only far-fetched but misleading, and seem like manifestations of trickery.

The Sages declared that the following Torah laws “never were and never will be”:

Ben sorer umoreh (the stubborn and rebellious son who had to be killed).[3]
Ir hanidachat (the subversive city, which had to be entirely destroyed because its inhabitants worshipped idolatry).[4]
In addition to this, they decided that lex talionis, the principle of “an eye for an eye,” meant financial compensation while the text does not even hint at this.[5]

To solve the problems of mamzer (a child born from an adulterous relationship) they invented mechanisms that the Torah never mentioned.[6]

There are numerous other cases. In all these instances, the Rabbis used arguments that are highly problematic and seemingly dishonest and deceptive. How did they do so with a clear conscience?

The Torah as a Divine Compromise

We believe that a profound reason stands behind the Sages’ willingness to adjust the Torah in this manner. While the Sages believed that the Torah is absolutely divine,[7] they did not see it as the final text or teaching. They realized that the Torah text was a stage in God’s plan at a particular moment in Jewish history.

Revelation is a response to the human longing for a relationship with God, thus, it can succeed only to the extent that human beings can relate to it. The Divine Will, therefore, is limited by what human beings are able to pragmatically and spiritually understand and accomplish at a given time and in a given place.

The Torah is anthropocentric while its aspirations are theocentric. In other words: While the Divine Will may want to accomplish the ultimate, it is constrained by the limitations of human ability. The Torah, then, is really a divine compromise, filtered through the mindset and mores of its intended audience.[8] It is therefore flawed in the sense that it must sometimes allow or introduce laws that are far from ideal but were the best possible option at the time they were revealed to the Jewish people, or like in other cases were never meant to be applied literally. (See later.)

Maimonides: The Outdated Nature of the Sacrificial Cult
One famous example is given by Maimonides, in his Guide of the Perplexed, regarding the sacrificial cult in the Tabernacle and later in the Temple. He suggests that the Torah carefully limited the already existing practice of sacrifice and kept it for the sole purpose of weaning the Jewish people away from the primitive rituals of their idolatrous neighbors. In other words, Maimonides believed that the sacrificial cult in Judaism was established as a compromise to human weakness:

For a sudden transition from one opposite to another is impossible. And therefore man, according to his nature, is not capable of abandoning suddenly all to which he was accustomed….Therefore He, may He be exalted, suffered the above-mentioned kinds of worship to remain, but transferred them from created or imaginary and unreal things to His own name…commanding us to practice them with regard to Him.[9]

To give the sacrificial cult a more sophisticated, dignified and monotheistic meaning, the Torah introduced many laws to refine this kind of worship. This would slowly move people towards being able to have it abolished altogether, which was the divine objective.

Still, the numerous and intricate sacrificial laws in the Torah, carefully detailed in the Oral Law, have tremendous symbolic and educational meaning far beyond the actual sacrificial deed. Many of them paradoxically make the worshiper sensitive to higher standards leading to genuine monotheism.[10] This means that while one should really outgrow the actual sacrificial deed, the many spiritual messages behind these laws remain relevant even to this day.

Hebrew Slavery
The same is true about slavery. The fact that the Torah tolerates slavery only means that it was not yet possible to completely abandon it. Former societies would not have been able to sustain themselves economically had slavery come to a sudden end. So the Torah introduced laws to make slavery—at least Hebrew slavery[11]—more ethical, by creating much better conditions for slaves, helping them to overcome their slave mentality, and giving them the opportunity to free themselves and start a new life.[12] Only at a later stage could slavery be eliminated altogether.

If the Torah Was Given Today Would It Have Laws on Slavery?
To take the point one step further, not only would the laws concerning sacrifices and slavery be totally abolished once the people outgrew the need for them, but they would actually not have appeared in the biblical text had it been revealed at a much later stage in Jewish history.[13]

This has enormous consequences for a proper understanding of what Torah, in essence, is all about. Just as slavery and the cult of sacrifices are compromises to human weakness would not have appeared in the text at a later stage, the same may be said for other problematic laws.[14]

But whether or how they would have appeared at a later stage would depend on the moral and religious sophistication of human beings, not on God. The more human beings purge themselves of earlier ideas and practices that still reflect primitive and amoral perceptions, the more the ideal divine law will be able to reveal itself. So the text of the Torah is human in the sense that it is the human condition that will determine what will appear in the divine text and what will not.

Humanity’s Innate but Inchoate Moral Intuition

But a person’s obligation is to aim for higher moral and religious standards. Because people are created in the image of God, they carry within themselves moral notions of the highest order, which are very close to God’s ultimate will. They may not be aware of them, since they remain subconscious at an early moment in Jewish history – such as at Mount Sinai – but at a later stage and throughout all of history, these moral notions slowly develop and come to the forefront.[15]

The Need to Disconnect from Torah
But developing these higher moral notions is possible only if the readers morally disconnect themselves from the biblical text when the text still represents lower moral standards. Would they constantly come back to the text, they would be unable to opt for higher moral and religious goals, since they would consider it to have the final word. The text would then become an obstacle, instead of a support system to achieve even higher levels of growth. So rather than the person following the text, the text should follow the person.

A Twenty-First Century Torah
vs. a Three Thousand Year Old Torah

Were the Torah given today, it would not be the same text that God gave at Sinai. After all, over the many years people have developed a more sophisticated understanding of moral values. It is true that they have bitterly failed in living by those standards, but there is no doubt that humanity’s understanding of what morality should be is far more advanced than it was in the days of the Torah. The unconditional equality of all men, the dignity of all women, Jews and non-Jews are but a few examples.

Yet the drive to reach for these higher levels is inspired by the Torah’s introducing such laws as Love your neighbor as yourself, and laws that call for s-xual restraint, the wellbeing of the stranger, respecting human dignity, and many others. .The Torah gave people a taste of how things really should be. By doing so, it has greatly contributed to the ongoing development of many other values, some of which are not even mentioned in the Torah.

The Paradox of the Torah’s Ethical Charge
Sometimes the Torah’s laws reflect the highest standards, and sometimes they do not. Too much “theocentric” legislation at once would probably have been impossible to accept by a society that was still rooted in conditions so at odds with those standards. The resulting Torah is, thus, a paradoxical mix of sublime divine ideals and primitive human necessities.

By sustaining this paradox, the text created a vision and aspiration in stages. It gave human beings a feeling of how things should really be, while not yet asking them to go all the way. It reveals an understanding, as Maimonides teaches, that such changes need time to reach human beings, since a person cannot make a “sudden transition from one opposite to another.”

<bThe Sages’ Responsibility to “Update” the Text

It is here that one of the most far-reaching ideas in Judaism appears. Instead of God constantly upgrading the text to higher standards according to human capabilities, and giving the Torah over and over again, God left it in the hands of the Sages.

After laying the foundations, God asks the Sages to become partners in the creation of the Torah,[16] in the sense that humans would now be able to develop it to even higher levels. Just as in the creation chapter (Gen 1), God provides the main ingredients and then asks humanity to fashion the world and improve it, the Torah is presented as the main ingredient that the Sages must engage with and improve. The text was meant as a point of departure, not as an arrival,[17] and the Sages are the ones required to adapt the text.

Changing the Laws without Changing the Text
The Rabbis’ divine mandate to update Judaism and keep its moral development on target was not to be accomplished by changing the “underdeveloped,” compromised, and flawed divine wording itself but by their interpretation of the Torah text, or by advancing ideas and even laws that sometimes required drastic changes, which violated the literal meaning of the verses. That they were willing to do so is now obvious. They felt obligated to do so, since this was the very intention of the text. The divine but flawed text asked of humans to go beyond it and sometimes even ignore it. The text demanded its own fundamental renovation.

Four Examples of Rabbinic Updating

Let us return to the four examples with which we opened the piece:

A. Ben Sorer u-Moreh (Rebellious Son)

The Torah commands that a stubborn and rebellious son must be put to death. The rabbis were of the opinion that this law could never have been enforced, since it completely violates the moral spirit of the Torah, even by its lower standard at Sinai. They therefore declared that such a law is only theoretical: “There never was a stubborn and rebellious son, and never will be.”[18] Its message was purely educational. There are many important lessons to be learned from this so-called commandment, but that it should actually be implemented is not one of them.[19]

To get rid of the law, the Rabbis started reading the text so literally, using every means of deduction and legal hairsplitting, that it became totally impossible to enforce the law. So, for example, the rabbis interpret the phrase “he doesn’t listen to our voice (איננו שמע בקולנו)” in Devarim 21:20 to mean that the father and mother must speak in the identical voice,[20] a state of affairs that is all but physically impossible. They then add for good measure that the parents must also be the same height and have the same face.[21]

B. Ir Hanidachat (the Subversive City)

The second, and perhaps most radical, example of how far the Rabbis were prepared to go is the case of ir hanidachat,(subversive city) regarding which the Sages used a very far-fetched argument to abolish this biblical law for the sake of a higher morality. Here, too, they were convinced that “there never was a condemned city and never will be,” and the law was meant only to convey some important lessons.[22]

It is most ingenious how the Sages justified this ruling. They argued that it was impossible to destroy the entire city, since no doubt there must have been mezuzot on the doorposts of some of its inhabitants. (You can be a Jewish idol worshipper, but what Jew doesn’t have a mezuzah on their doorpost?) Since it is forbidden to destroy the name of God, which is found in the mezuzah, and everything in the city had to be utterly destroyed, the law of ir hanidachat could not be enforced and was meant to be purely theoretical.

That the mezuzah could be removed before the city would be destroyed was something the Sages did not want to contemplate! They must surely have been aware of this possibility. But since they believed that God could never have meant this law to be applied, they found an extremely far-fetched loophole and based their whole argument on a minor detail, which they could easily have solved and which they knew made little sense. It was deliberate trickery rooted in an unequalled moral awareness.[23]

C. Lex Talionis (Eye for an Eye)

Another case is lex talionis, the law of “an eye for an eye.” This law was understood by the Rabbis to be purely symbolic, since it was impossible to enforce in a way that could be justified. (How could one person’s eye ever be equal to someone else’s?) They therefore felt obligated to interpret the true meaning of this law as financial compensation.[24] It was written as “an eye for an eye” to emphasize that ideally a person should give their eye to the one whom they blinded.[25] Surely, such a thing was not possible, but the point was made![26]

D. The Mamzer (Bastard)

A most striking case, which shows how far the Sages were prepared to go in finding loopholes, is the mamzer (a child born from an adulterous relationship). Since the Rabbis (according to our theory) considered both this law to be flawed, perhaps a relic of a primitive society, which the Jews at the time were not yet able to dispense with, they argued that they were obliged to at least limit their damage until the day when they could be abolished altogether. This, after all, was exactly what God and the Torah desired.[27]

Ideally, the Torah does not want such a law to apply, since it violates its spirit, according to which no one may ever be punished for another’s transgressions or become the victim of a malicious husband.[28] Why punish children for the s-xual misconduct of their parents?

Still, the Rabbis believed that for the meantime, the law had meaning and was a very strong warning against s-xual offenses. As such, the “flaw” did not yet have to be completely abolished but had to be amended in such a way that it would nearly never apply, although it was clear that at a still later stage it would need to be altogether abolished.[29]

There was no way, however, to reinterpret the text in order to accomplish this temporary goal, so another device had to be found. The Sages invented a mechanism that was so “out of the box,” one can only stand in awe of their courage. They decided that the legality of any marriage was not contingent on any action taken by the husband and wife, or even on the rabbi who married them, but only on their (the Sages’) agreement to this marriage. If they no longer approved, they simply declared the marriage null and void. [30] While they seldom made use of this principle, they did if they felt it would help a mamzer out of his or her unfortunate status.

A Trickery Reflecting the Torah’s True Values

The Sages didn’t see any of these interventions as trickery but as a way of achieving the higher objective of the Torah.[31] They believed that the Torah was completely divine but also flawed and that it was their task to refine it and to bring it to the level that God had intended. This, I believe, is the secret behind the halachic loophole and the divinity of the Torah.
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GreenEyes26




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:38 am
amother wrote:
Hmmm... there are definitely parts of the Torah which do, and that is way more difficult to explain than rabbonim's interpretations.


100%. That's why I said, "for the most part". These are things that I can either get upset about, or ignore for now. As I said, there is still an element of blind faith. I'll never get every single one of my questions answered. So I can choose to stay (which I have chosen) or I can leave. The pluses are still higher than the minuses for me.

ETA: While I may stay quiet on things I feel cannot be changed, I WILL NOT stay quiet on things that CAN and SHOULD be changed. This covers almost every chumra coming out of charedi Judaism today.


Last edited by GreenEyes26 on Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:38 am
GreenEyes26 wrote:
With all due respect, this argument drives me crazy. I totally believe that you've never been made to feel inferior. Honestly, I have never either been openly discriminated against because of my gender in Judaism. But to say that on a basic, fundamental level, Orthodox (Chareidi) Judaism isn't completely misogynistic, is to ignore basic facts. You don't have to be heckled in the street to realize this.

Almost every Chareidi family member, community friend or person I've met has been wonderful. That doesn't mean the ideology they ascribe to isn't riddled with patriarchal holes.


I don't really care what charedim think. I care what G-d thinks. And I know that He values me just as much as he values my husband. Some views are despicable I agree, I just ignore them. They have nothing to do with my life and are not true Torah.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:40 am
amother wrote:
Good question! A question that rationalist Judaism tries to deal with. There are some good articles on www.theTorah.com that address this and other parts of the Torah which go against our morals and values.


www.theTorah.com looks to be a very problematic site. Just an FYI.
Personally, I would never say that the Torah goes against my morals and values. I would reevaluate my morals and values. And of course I would find people to ask, and do my own research and reading. This would not be one of my sources though.
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GreenEyes26




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:42 am
mommy3b2c wrote:
I don't really care what charedim think. I care what G-d thinks. And I know that He values me just as much as he values my husband. Some views are despicable I agree, I just ignore them. They have nothing to do with my life and are not true Torah.


But they DO have to do with your life, because in order to stay a part of your community, you must follow these rules. Otherwise, you (I mean this as a general "you") will suffer. There is no Charedi community on Earth where you can do whatever you want, or not do the things you think are wrong, and get away with it. There will always be backlash.
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Tue, Dec 06 2016, 10:44 am
mommy3b2c wrote:
I don't really care what charedim think. I care what G-d thinks. And I know that He values me just as much as he values my husband. Some views are despicable I agree, I just ignore them. They have nothing to do with my life and are not true Torah.


Why are they not true Torah? We're talking about major meforshim - the Netziv, the Abarbanel, Rabbeinu Bachya, the Rambam, Rebbi Eliezer - major Torah giants.

We can't reject them as not true Torah; we can recognize that the Torah is a living document which evolves with our morals as society gets more civilized. If it wasn't evolving we'd look like fundamentalists. We'd be terrorists killing Amalek, rapists raping captive women, own slaves, marrying off molestors to the children they abused, selling 3 year old girls into slavery, and murdering 3 year old girls for not screaming out when a grown man raped them because if they didn't cry out in the city they seduced the rapist or consented.
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