Why are they not teaching this (thoroughly) to females?

seeker

Fri, Dec 16 2016, 12:23 am

I don't want to have to ask my husband or a rabbi what every issue on a chicken is.

A shaila is a shaila, but I feel like I end up asking my husband something about 1/3 of the times I make chicken, and I don't think it's OCD or anything. These ordinary non-shaila shailas - if he can learn it, I could have learned it. Why do I never have a clue why one time he says it's perfectly fine, another time he says the chicken is kosher but I need to cut out the bloody-looking part, and once in a blue moon it's actually not kosher enough to use even though it came from a package with a hechsher? Why are they not taking high school girls on field trips to the butcher to learn about chicken anatomy?

We had home ec for a little LESS than a year in high school, and we used it to make COOKIES. As if it takes special skill to learn how to follow a cookie recipe. Or to make a fruit platter. OK maybe my school was exceptionally weak in the home ec department but do ANY girls' schools teach the difference between kosher blood and treif blood? (most boys' schools don't, either - this is something DH pursued on his own in his beis medrash years. But for them, there isn't a blanket expectation that they will spend a significant portion of their lives preparing chickens for eating.)

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Dec 16 2016, 12:36 am

I didn't even know home ec still exists in this day and age!

I also don't know what type of shailos you are talking about. I assume a kashered chicken sold by a store with a hashgacha is kosher unless I mess up something in my own kitchen.

Can you please elaborate?

Amother because I am embarrassed by my ignorance.

Chana Miriam S

Fri, Dec 16 2016, 12:51 am

amother wrote:

Um. I don't know a single person who, when using chicken sold under reliable hashgacha, ever has a Shaila.

I work under hashgacha and I am also just completing a mashgiach course under the COR with guys who have been mashgichim for up to 30 years, and never have I heard word one about questions on meat that was kashered under reliable hashgacha.

I suggest you buy your meat from a more reliable supplier if you constantly have questions about their reliability.

seeker

Fri, Dec 16 2016, 12:53 am

Sometimes you open up a chicken despite being sold by a kosher company and it has a nasty bruise or something. Even with good supervision, something rarely slips through the cracks. Rarely but out of such a big volume that rarely is going to end up in someone's kitchen. Maybe bidieved it's fine, but if you see a bad bruise on your chicken and you don't know how to tell whether or not it's a problem, you should probably ask. And besides for the very rare instance that is actually treif, DH has told me on several occasions that even though the chicken itself is kosher, the bloody part should really be cut off (in those cases I think bidieved it's kosher, so people who are just going by the hechsher are really fine. It's just nervous people like me who keep analyzing chicken complexion I guess)

amother

Natural

Fri, Dec 16 2016, 12:54 am

Wait, you're saying that packaged chicken with a hechsher can be treif??? I never even thought to ask Shailas. I always assumed it's kosher if there's a hechsher. I don't understand.
ETA: for some reason the rest of the responses didn't load before I posted, I see this was asked and answered but I don't know how to delete this.

seeker

Fri, Dec 16 2016, 12:55 am

I typically use Empire chicken, which is under the OU, which I trust.
I am pretty sure that most of my "shailas" are not real "shailas" but just a product of my lack of knowledge. If I knew what a shaila was I would probably only have one maybe twice a year. I only once had one that actually turned out to not be kosher and I have a friend who also did.

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Dec 16 2016, 12:56 am

2 things:
1. like everyone else has said, if you are buying your chickens from a reliable kosher place, why would there be ANY questions, even if you saw blood?
2. If you are interested in not having to ask anyone a question about your chickens, why not just learn it yourself?
And no offense, but not only females should know this. Anyone who ever cleans or cooks chicken should, if they are interested and so choose. This is not only a female thing.

Chana Miriam S

Fri, Dec 16 2016, 1:00 am

seeker wrote:

You should switch suppliers. I've never seen what you are talking about.

seeker

Fri, Dec 16 2016, 1:06 am

Of course anyone who deals with chicken should know this stuff, which is why my DH does, and why I am confused about why I don't.
I would love to learn about it myself. Where's the course for women about this? That is what I was asking in my OP.
Why would there be any questions? Because as I already said, sometimes mistakes happen. I know of at least twice just between me and a friend.

5mom

Fri, Dec 16 2016, 1:08 am

The chicken is kosher when it gets packaged. If it's bruised or even if a bone is broken, you can assume that is a result of rough handling during transport. As far as blood goes, the chickens have been soaked and salted. Whatever red stuff remains is kosher.

Still, it's always a good idea to know halacha. It's never too late to learn. Why not organize a shiur in your neighborhood?

MagentaYenta

Fri, Dec 16 2016, 1:32 am

seeker wrote:

Women of my generation learned it from our mothers. Things all changed with factory farmed poultry. Although it's physically impossible for a bled out chicken to bruise, there can be bleeding from the marrow due to the early age that production poultry is slaughtered today.

seeker

Fri, Dec 16 2016, 1:35 am

Yes, after asking DH enough times, I learned to tell the difference between leaky marrow and other types of blood. I've also learned how to tell that a type of bruising that I used to ask about is really very normal and not a question. But - first of all, why did I only figure this out at 25ish due to being married to a kashrus expert, and secondly I still don't know enough to be self-sufficient in this area.

MagentaYenta

Fri, Dec 16 2016, 1:42 am

seeker wrote:

Be grateful that parts of your childhood did not include inspecting the internal organs of dozens of hens.

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Dec 16 2016, 1:53 am

seeker wrote:

First of all, such a course does not have to happen in high school. I think you would make a lot of girls become vegan.
Second, if you really want to learn this, then why not see how you can organize a course like this for women in your area?

amother

Coffee

Fri, Dec 16 2016, 7:18 am

This sounds very strange to me. In nearly a decade of marriage, plus my adolescence (which is when I learned to cook), I have come across a bruising shaila ONCE. Not once a year, once ever. And the rav said it was fine, it was a post death "bruise" not a real one.
Also regarding home ec, I'm impressed you had any, even if it was very rudimentary. I'm in your age cohort and I don't know anyone of our generation who had any home ec. I agree though, it's a crying shame.

cnc

Fri, Dec 16 2016, 7:44 am

I had Home Ec in high school and it was considered part of limudei chol. I learned Hilchos Kashrus which involved kashering chickens. I don't understand why you would assume Halacha would feel under the subject of home economics...

That said, why would you even think that a packaged chicken with a hechsher that you presumably trust has a shaila (you make it sound like it's common)? If a had a safek even once I would stop eating that hechsher . FTR my family is involved in the food/ kashrus business as well.