LW MO school in Brooklyn?

saw50st8

Mon, Dec 19 2016, 7:32 am

amother wrote:

I brought up my concerns tonight and a whole argument ensued. He tells me I don't understand because I didn't grow up in the yeshiva system, I don't know what I'm talking about and that our child "will go to a good, proper school, zehu."

He says he is 100% ok with them teaching our child "the truth" even if that conflicts with the way we live at home. He is completely unwilling to compromise. He says if we don't agree then he guesses our child won't be going to school at all.

This all feels like emotional manipulation to me.

This isn't the first time he's tried to unilaterally make decisions. It started after I got pregnant. I am seriously considering the possibility of separating in the future. I am so tired of fighting and him thinking he calls the shots. I am really distressed. We've tried a year or more of couples therapy and things are not improving.

Ps: he told me our child will be hurt either way, either from not going to a proper school or "not having two parents together" and "you decide".

I grew up in a MO school and went to a RW school where all I heard all day was how wrong everything my family held by was. By the time I graduated 8th grade, I was really ready to drop everything. If I had continued in that system, I would be so far OTD you couldn't find me today. I went to a wonderful MO high school where I became more comfortable with my Judaism and practice.

My sister went to the same elementary school as I did, loved it and didn't feel burdened by their attacks. She continued on to a Bais Yaakov high school and leads a RW yeshivish lifestyle.

These things are so individual.

Another thing to consider is that Chaim Berlin likely won't take your child if you wear pants and don't cover your hair. It's not as hard to get your kids into Brooklyn schools as Lakewood, but it's not always easy.

Are you OK with his threat though? If you do actually get divorced, do not give up educational rights (I'm not telling you to break up your marriage).

amother

Lawngreen

Mon, Dec 19 2016, 9:46 am

saw50st8 wrote:

Thanks for sharing your experience.
I am most certainly NOT ok with his threat.
This is not the first time he has tried to impose something. It is now a pattern in the marriage, which is very worrying. A year of marriage counseling and it's still happening...

saw50st8

Mon, Dec 19 2016, 10:12 am

amother wrote:

How do you respond to his threats? Do you back down?

I think raising children when the parents aren't on the same general page is a huge stress to both the parents and children.

I think you should go on some school tours with your husband so he can actually see the environment. Talk to the principals and ask openly if they will accept children from homes with moms who don't cover their hair and wear pants. I'm sure their answer will surprise your husband. Also, mention that you have unfiltered internet in your home and watch what happens...

amother

Lawngreen

Mon, Dec 19 2016, 10:22 am

saw50st8 wrote:

No, I don't back down. I have been fighting with him ever since I was pregnant, which is when all this madness started. We are in a cycle. He blows up very easily and is showing controlling behavior. If I disagree with him about something, or if I'm upset or have feeling he can't deal with (not even to do with him or us) he starts blaming me. He has walked out of the house before, refused to discuss things, refused to eat Shabbat dinner and will go to the bed instead and stay there, refusing to talk, telling me "at least I didn't leave the house, you should be happy I stayed home". It's become such a mess.
Last night he said "fine, come with me to the schools with your boobs popping out, were still sending DD there".
So suddenly I'm dressing that way... I don't dress "with my boobs popping out".
I totally agree with you on how things would go if I just went to these schools as I am, mentioned unfiltered Internet and phones, watching TV etc. I'm afraid that would all backfire though and I'd be blamed once again. He seems so crazy about the schools issue that he might even abide by their rules. If we do separate, could he get his way? I am so worried about so many things. I'm worried about protecting my child first and foremost and I feel like he is going to turn on me in a heartbeat if we end up divorced.

saw50st8

Mon, Dec 19 2016, 11:33 am

amother wrote:

He cannot force you to abide by religious restrictions that you don't want to in a divorce. However, depending on how the divorce goes down, there are restrictions that may be placed on your child that you would have to respect per the courts. You would really be better off talking to someone with experience. Fighting for educational rights is extremely important in this case.

I will say that I recently heard a story of a family that got divorced. The husband was orthodox and the woman went OTD and came out as a lesbian. She petitioned the courts for education rights under the guise that the school her daughter was in would teach her daughter to hate her mother's lifestyle. So the child was moved to a Jewish egalitarian school.
(I can't verify this information but the person who told me the story is trustworthy and knows the family).

Since your husband is trying to go outside of the norms of your current religious lifestyle, I think it would be very hard for him to argue about the education rights in court.

As to finances, many schools will work with you financially. Most schools DO NOT work with you religiously. I would definitely apply to HLA even if you don't initially plan to send there because if you get in, you can really broach that topic, especially if cost is a big factor.

I don't know enough about the MO Brooklyn schools to help you out with other options though.

amother

Smokey

Mon, Dec 19 2016, 5:55 pm

Op, you would need to be like the rest of the parents in the school not the schools many rules. There are some rules that a RW schoosl are very strict about and the parents are willing to change to be in that school your dh changed his veiw since marriage. he is willing to change if the school would tell him to do so. you are not ready to change. can you stay married and agree to disagree. would you be willing to go along with certain rules for the sake of your children. My cousins daughter to only want to wear skirts even though her mother wears pants. she sent her children to a more religious school but she has not changed.

kjb

Mon, Dec 19 2016, 8:46 pm

I don't get your husband at all. He thinks it's so important that your child goes to a black hat, anti internet school that his is issuing you with an ultimatum of divorce if you don't agree and yet he doesn't value those kind of religious values enough to educate his own child in them by modelling them in the slightest in his own home? There is something badly wrong with this man. And the manipulative bullying pressure he's putting on you is not acceptable. I think you need to say all this to him slowly and calmly in the presence of a counsellor/therapist who will hopefully help him to see his own hypocrisy.

Lady Bug

Mon, Dec 19 2016, 8:49 pm

I'm so sorry for what you are going through in your marriage. The school issue is just bringing forth the bigger issues in your marriage.

You are in a mixed marriage religiously. The only way for a marriage like that to work is with open, honest communication and mutual acceptance and respect. It doesn't seem like your marriage has these important factors, so regardless of which school you send your child to, your marriage will fall apart unless you both put in a tremendous amount of work.

Being that your husband is displaying controlling behaviors and blaming it all on you, I think that couples therapy will continue to be useless. Start seeing an individual therapist, if you can find someone who works with spouses of abuse that would be great. Empower yourself to see your options clearly. Don't let him pull the "I know the religious world better than you" card to totally dismiss your opinions and wishes. Get strong and see if this marriage can last, regardless of the school you decide on eventually.

amother

Lawngreen

Mon, Dec 19 2016, 9:31 pm

kjb wrote:

I agree with everything you wrote. I can't believe he doesn't see the hypocrisy. It's infuriating. Also, I hate being told that I don't have the right to have an opinion because I didn't go to a yeshiva.

amother

Lawngreen

Mon, Dec 19 2016, 9:34 pm

Lady Bug wrote:

Thank you for your sound advice, you really understand it.
I am going for individual therapy and aligning resources to protect myself. We've been in therapy for a year and like you said, it's useless. He keeps behaving this way. It's a cycle.
I'm scared but I'm independent and will figure this out, whatever happens. I wish I didn't have to... but this is what it is. We are fighting all the time now and he is constantly dismissing my concerns and not validating my feelings on a broad variety of topics. The schools thing is just one example. It's so up and down so I think things are getting better and I get hopeful... and now I sound like every other abused wife.

naomi2

Tue, Dec 20 2016, 7:48 am

The best bet is shulamith for girls and derech hatorah for boys.
Both have an emphasis on religion, are considered frum schools and have parents that run a spectrum, including pants wearers and uncovered hair. These schools are just to the left of bais yaacov. They are also not coed that would probably be the best compromise between you and your husband.
Luria and yof are coed and further left. Yof is more complicated because its mostly sefardic/Syrian so, religious wise, it's different from ashkenaz LW MO. .
Also, to echo above posters, please go together to tour the schools. You will both have a better idea of what fits your mixed hashkafah family.

amother

Lawngreen

Wed, Dec 21 2016, 9:50 pm

OP here.
DH and I have barely spoken since the big fight about the schools.
He hasn't apologized for how he spoke to me or brought up the subject at all.
I feel like I have a roommate, not a husband. We have only spoken about practical things like food, or things regarding the baby.
I feel so emotionally detached from him. He comes from a culture where the women don't have much of a say (I've even seen it referenced on imamother). When I married him, I thought he was different. I feel so mislead. He is very much a product of his environment after all.
I was trying to be strong but now I just feel like crying.

I am seeing an abuse counselor soon, though. She understand everything on the phone and said some very validating things. It was nice to hear. DH constantly blames me for everything... my emotional responses, his emotional responses, other people's, he rarely defends me. I can't even look at him right now.