Bar mitzvahs in small shuls

amother

Violet

Wed, Dec 21 2016, 1:16 pm

I'm wondering what the answer is to how to not inconvenience the members of a shul for a bar mitzvah. I go to a shul that is pretty full on a regular shabbos so when there is a bar mitzvah it can get unpleasant. I understand that people want to share in the simcha but at what point does it become a fire hazard or does noone care?

It just seems so contradictory to make a celebration that your child is becoming a jewish male and inconvenience other people at the same time?

I know I probably sound like such a spoilsport and I should just be happy for them and really truly I am, just wondering if there's a good solution?

33055

Wed, Dec 21 2016, 2:12 pm

It is very bad. Many of these small shuls are constructed without permits and proper fire safety measures in addition to exceeding any reasonable capacity. Often there is only one exit. When the fire inspectors try to enforce code where I am, there are cries of anti-Semitism.

Sorry, but the short answer is that no one in the congregation seems to care. No one wants to miss the big kiddish.

amother

Blue

Wed, Dec 21 2016, 2:26 pm

Squishy wrote:

And there are plenty of small shuls that are completely up to code, but small.

When our shul was being renovated, and Shabbat services were being held in a smaller space, we arranged for a second, simultaneous minyan elsewhere in the building whenever there was a bar mitzvah.

Everyone got to eat at the kiddush.

33055

Wed, Dec 21 2016, 2:52 pm

amother wrote:

You are being ridiculous. I said "many" not "all".

Where I live, again not speaking about the entire world, many shuls are pushed in houses and partition walls are not fire rated, there are not enough exits, there are no strobe lights, there are no sprinkler systems, nor smoke detectors. I could go on. We just saw a tragedy when the warehouse was used as a club without thought to fire safety.

These small shuls don't have elsewhere in the building to go. Also, what do you do about kiddish when it exceeds capacity? I have been in plenty of big shuls outside Monsey that exceed capacity during kiddish.

amother

Violet

Wed, Dec 21 2016, 3:48 pm

op here- so last week the shul had a very expensive bar mitzvah. I didn't stay even though I usually do. I couldn't move, I just wanted to get my kids together and leave. This was after standing in the entryway instead of davening in shul because I couldn't breath in shul. Hence my post Smile

. My shul IS to code, the community just grew a lot and when theres a bar mitzvah theres even more people.

I realize that in my "home town" it was fairly common for people who daven in a shteibel to rent out the local dayschool and do minyan and kiddush there instead for the space. There were also at least two shuls which had tons of available seats in the main sanctuary,

33055

Wed, Dec 21 2016, 3:56 pm

amother wrote:

The shul isn't up to code if it exceeds capacity. Pain and simple, it is in violation.

animeme

Wed, Dec 21 2016, 4:04 pm

Squishy wrote:

The shul isn't up to code if it exceeds capacity. Pain and simple, it is in violation.

What do you suggest should happen when people show up? Should there be a head counter who tells people who arrive to their regular shul that they need to go elsewhere? I can see it at kiddushes- you would need to count people going out before letting people in, though it would be hard, especially with multiple exits. But would you turn people away from davening itself?

33055

Wed, Dec 21 2016, 4:11 pm

animeme wrote:

I don't know. I know there is a problem, and I see both sides. Two local municipalities's building departments here were taken over this week by the state. It is in today's paper again. It is very bad.

I think a sheila needs to be asked; although, I would have a problem if the answer was to ignore code. Perhaps the men stay and the women leave.

simcha2

Wed, Dec 21 2016, 4:14 pm

Excluding the fire hazard issue for a minute , it appears OP is upset that when there is a simcha there are more people and out is not as nice an experience for the regulars.

Our shul isn't bursting at the seams but when there is a simcha I could complain, "a guest sat in my makom kavua", there is more noise etc,. But rather I choose to frame it as "We are so lucky to have smachot in our community". Yes, it can be inconvenient for me personally, but that is the joy of being part of a community. PG when I make a simcha the other members of our shul will celebrate with us rather than see it as a negative.

amother

Khaki

Wed, Dec 21 2016, 4:24 pm

If you want a quiet shul you can go to the shuls in europe, plenty of room there because Hitler murdered all the shul goers. It is very sad.
Sorry OP it bothers you but Boruch Hashem for this and may we attend many crowded simchas full of happy and healthy yidden.
Perhaps your shul has a hashkama minyan you can attend when there is a bar mitzvah in shul and you know it will be packed.

amother

Navy

Wed, Dec 21 2016, 4:48 pm

Our shul is not crowded and there is room for extra people at simchas. So, this is not a problem in our shul. But, if it had been, I wonder what I would have done. I would have felt very bad if my sons could not have had their bar mitzvahs at the shul where we have davened since before they were born and where they grew up davening each week since they are old enough to go to shul.

amother

Indigo

Thu, Dec 22 2016, 8:05 am

amother wrote:

If you want a quiet shul you can go to the shuls in europe, plenty of room there because Hitler murdered all the shul goers. It is very sad..

What on Earth?
Small kehilot will be quiet, big kehilot won't.
What on Earth, really.

amother

Violet

Thu, Dec 22 2016, 8:40 am

op here- I'm not talking makom kavuah, I'm talking there is no room. I don't daven in a shteibel but I can't imagine if all of a sudden all these guests would try to come daven at a shteibel for a bar mitzvah. I was just wondering what other shuls do in that case since as I said before where I grew up from what I remember either there was plenty of room or people did the bar mitzvah somewhere else. I was just wondering what other people do that's all.

amother

Lemon

Thu, Dec 22 2016, 11:59 am

My shul is in a converted house and we're bursting at the seams on a regular Shabbos. A simcha, as nice as it is to have one, really makes things difficult. The shul's hashkama minyan was actually created to alleviate the crowding, but it only helps a little at this point.

Different families have found different solutions to the problem. Some make their own minyan at a simcha hall that's a good walk away from our neighborhood. Some daven and have the kiddush at a bigger shul in the neighborhood, while some daven in our shul and make the kiddush at the other shul or at home. If the weather is decent then our shul can accommodate a crowd for a kiddush outside, but we don't have the space inside anymore. Some people think even more outside the box. Instead of having a kiddush on Shabbos they invite the congregation to a siyum and dessert reception on Shabbos afternoon or even on a weeknight.

seeker

Thu, Dec 22 2016, 12:07 pm

amother wrote:

I didn't read all the responses but I'm thinking a possible solution to the crowding is to rent a different venue in the same neighborhood for a kiddush after shul, and invite your shul kehilla to celebrate with you there.