Do we really owe him anything?

amother

Plum

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 1:31 pm

amother wrote:

OP.Said.She.Does.Not.Have.$100.To.Give.
Some people literally do not have.
Are you suggesting she should take tzedaka for it?
Just imagine the threads going on here about that.

Quite frankly based on the way she excuses herself for things that are one hundred percent her fault I wouldn't put it past her rationalizing that she doesn't have it. I think she probably does just doesn't want to spend it on that. And I understand that. I don't think she'd be going hungry if she gave the $100. Just may not be able to get as much take out or cleaning help as she needs because obviously that's all that matters. I could be wrong but that's what I'm getting from her attitude.

mummiedearest

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 1:35 pm

amother wrote:

OP.Said.She.Does.Not.Have.$100.To.Give.
Some people literally do not have.
Are you suggesting she should take tzedaka for it?
Just imagine the threads going on here about that.

I am all for not giving tips you can't afford in general. however, she created this whole issue. she's acting like it's his fault, and she seems to want to better the situation. she says he asked for $100, but she can't afford more than $25. unfortunately, $25 will be seen as begrudged hush money without any acknowledgement of her part in this. $100 would quiet the driver, but the resentment would still be there. going over $100 and adding a sincere apology would work best. she asked how much would be reasonable, and I really don't think any less than $100 would achieve what she wants it to. since she can't, she can't. I do think he deserves it, though, and I think she should rethink her management skills asap.

SixOfWands

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 1:48 pm

amother wrote:

This is a private van driver--no app, though I wish there was. I've only put him on the van in the afternoon (other than Friday) 3 times. Its not a bus with pre-arranged stops, he goes door-to-door for the pre-K, that's pretty standard in NYC. He doesn't even come "to my door" b/c I live in a strange apartment complex, he wants us to meet him at the corner which I can't see from my window. He's not consistent with his times, there's only so much "foreplanning" that I can do with my work schedule. Does your work allow you to leave 30-60 mins early just to make sure that in all possible scenarios you'd be able to get your child from the bus? I made reasonable efforts to get my child, I'm sorry it didn't work out and I was willing to meet him when I was late.

So, let me make sure I understand.

Your work doesn't let you leave at a time that will ensure that you can pick your child up at drop-off.

So you expect that a bus driver re-route himself, or work late in order to accommodate you.

Because your time is important, and apparently his is not?

ora_43

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 1:49 pm

OP, if you really truly can't afford a big tip, OK.

Although I would change the thinking a little. It's not so much a tip for good service, as paying him for extra work. How much would you have had to pay for a taxi to drive your child around until you were ready to meet him? So don't think of it as "the teachers were nicer, so they get more," more, "I paid the teachers for their work already, but the driver wasn't paid yet for the unexpected overtime he worked for me, so he gets more."

In any case. Pay what you can, and if it's not that much, fall all over yourself explaining how he really deserves a big tip and you're so sorry that you just don't have the money right now. So that at least he won't see it as a deliberate snub.

(I'm not naming amounts because I have no idea what the tipping norm is where you are.)

SixOfWands

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 1:51 pm

amother wrote:

What I don't get from everyone here, is lets say its a restaurant, you tip your waiter(ess) if they provide professional and courteous service, if you spill ok fine, if you're in the bathroom when the waitress brings your food, they don't threaten "not to bring your food if you're not there"--if s/he did, I'll be you wouldn't tip. If the waiter(ess) is rude--that would affect his/her tip. no?
This driver gets paid by the school, when my other child was in a special ed preschool, we were given specific drop off and pick up times and the window of how long the driver would wait and what the reprecussions would be if we were late--and we were never late (ok, circumstances were different for us). Here the driver gave us 1 time at the beginning of the year--and it took until well after y"t for that time to get accurate, never got a time for after school, but it was a moot point b/c I made alternate arrangements. All because of a simple switch of address for the one day a week that I use him, he gives us attitude about any little thing?? This service gets a tip??

Do you view your "nervous" child the way that you view a piece of toast?

If you're away from your table when the food comes, your waiter leaves it for you. He doesn't request that the chef rearrange the entire order of making food, then drive it over to your house while still piping hot because you're running late.

zaq

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 2:37 pm

amother wrote:

I've heard my 4-year-old say things like "stupid driver" and has told me how the driver goes "too fast" and "was in an accident." I know he can make up stories sometimes, but I've see this driver, I'm just not impressed with him and his notorious "hot temper."

And everyone knows that a 4-year old -- one who, moreover, "makes up stories sometimes" --is both an excellent judge of the intelligence of an adult--SHAME ON YOU for not rebuklng your ds for such disrespect, btw--and a reputable critic of a driver's skills.

zaq

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 2:42 pm

I'm not touching the issue of tipping. The driver shouldn't have mentioned it either. But OP owes the driver nothing less than an abject apology and three gushy letters of appreciation: one directly to him with profuse thanks for going out of his way to accommodate her and her dc, and two more to the director of the school and to the driver's boss. Cc's of the letter to the driver will do if OP doesn't have the ability to write different letters to the principal and the boss.

WhatFor

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 9:27 pm

Your poor little boy. What do you think is happening to his self-esteem when he picks up on the fact that his presence is unwanted?
I seriously doubt that the bus driver or you are actually saying anything to him of that nature, but what message is coming across when all the mommies of the other boys on the bus are waiting for their little boys, but at least a few times this year so far, his mommy is nowhere to be found, and he's sitting with a bus driver who's making phone calls and trying to figure out where to leave him?
Of course, you're a loving parent who picks up your son most days of the week. But no child should have to go through that experience of feeling unwanted or unloved any days of the week.
And honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if his attitude toward the bus driver is coming from you. He's probably trying to win over your love by telling you these things since he knows you share the same opinion.

petiteruchy

Wed, Dec 28 2016, 10:57 pm

I feel like what you're missing is that it doesn't matter if he's a grouchy, rude old man. Lots of bus drivers are. The facts are that most buses don't allow any kind of changes to the schedule or route at all. My first year with my daughter on the bus, I missed the bus a couple times. Both times he called me and circled back around to drop her off. I was profusely grateful, and felt very guilty. Because whatever the extenuating circumstances were, I was late for the bus, and by extension, holding dozens of people up. Not to mention, I have an anxious child too and she was in a terrible state by the time he got back to me.

The other thing you're missing is that what you're describing are not emergencies. Emergencies are when you're in an accident or the hospital. For that, no one would fault you for not being there to pick up your child. Every single person on this thread has had a day like you're describing, where everything goes wrong, the timing is off, the stars don't align. This is just normal adulthood. And normal adults don't expect the rest of the world to pick up the pieces because there was a minor set back to their schedule.

My other daughter almost didn't get picked up from daycare the other day. I worked late that day, thinking my husband was getting her. He had sent me a text and didn't realize I didn't even see it. It resulted in both of us flying down there at top speed so that she wouldn't be there after the daycare closed, worrying her and inconveniencing the staff. If I'd been late, the daycare staff would have been very right in being upset at me.

I'm sharing these stories because some people ( like me) have a hard time managing time and often seem to be late/rushing/disorganized. You're not the only one that has had a hard time getting their children where they need to go with the pressures of full time work and traffic and all that. The difference seems to be that I see this as a personal failing that often puts people out, something which requires additional effort and occasional heartfelt apologies. The bus driver seems like a real peach, but that doesn't excuse your attitude. And don't think he can't tell what you really think of his grievances.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Dec 29 2016, 12:30 am

One year my then 3 year old went to two programs each day. A bus would pick him up from home, bring him to place A, then another bus would pick him up from there and take him to place B. After wich the bus would bring him home. His morning place had for midwinter vacation for a full week. For that week, I walked him everyday to the first place even though it was closed - just to catch the bus from there that will take him to his afternoon place. (this was a 20 minute (40 round trip) walk in cold weather which including shelping my baby too since dh has the car during the day). Technically I knew the bus had to pass somewhere near me in order to get to the school, but didn't feel it was fair to change things on the driver for a week and nor did I want to confuse him by changing things and then changing it back. I wanted to keep the driver happy - hes in charge of my sons safety everyday and walking him for a week - a big inconvenience for those days, in the big picture of a whole year really isn't such a big deal.

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Dec 29 2016, 12:42 am

WhatFor wrote:

I resent this insinuation. My son was never "left behind" or "not wanted" and I made these arrangements PRECISELY for this reason. When I was stuck at the mechanic, I thought about how he would feel so I called someone whom he knows well and would understand if he had to spend time there. Otherwise I pick up my kids at the same time every day. Until these few incidents I've not been late to pick up my kids.

And of course I don't believe my 4-year-old outright, but I am suspicious of somethings that he has said--when he's telling the truth his tone of voice is different than when he's lying--but I do take him with a "grain of salt" Of course I told him that what he was saying wasn't nice.

How is being stuck at a mechanic with a car that is unsafe to drive less of an "emergency" than an illness--if I had gone to pick up my kids with my car in that state I was told my car could've caught fire--so THAT should've been my emergency??!!. If I had a flat tire or busted radiator--would you say that's not an emergency? You've never met this guy, the principal understood our predicament and was able to intervene and he knows this guy's temperament. Again, if he would've at least have been NICE throughout all of this, I would feel gracious, but the fact that he wasn't willing to listen to reason or apologies from us at all.

I appreciated that he worked out with my babysitter to drop of my son at the doctor's office when she was still there--I would've gladly shown appreciation, but when he started yelling at us and refused to listen to us and "refused to take my son back to her" ruined it.

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Dec 29 2016, 12:48 am

amother wrote:

What makes you say that? I'm all for gratitude, believe me if I could pay for a babysitter to be home to receive my kids on a consistent basis I would do it. How is getting stuck at the mechanic 100% my fault? It was a miracle that I didn't keep driving and cause a real emergency and destroy our car. Why is everyone making me into the villain here, when even the principal knows that he has a hot-headed, stubborn personality?

mummiedearest

Thu, Dec 29 2016, 12:52 am

amother wrote:

because your mechanic does not need you to assist him in fixing the car. you should have taken a cab. and you should have confirmed with the babysitter that she was available. these are YOUR responsibilities, regardless of the bus driver's personality.

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Dec 29 2016, 1:04 am

mummiedearest wrote:

Uh, it took them time to diagnose the problem--it was busy that day so while I went there with 1.5 hrs until I had to be at school, by the time I got word of the problem, even a cab wouldn't have helped, I had no significant cash on me we had to make a complicated decision about fixing the car, and we needed our car back for carpool the next day. I tried, she told me she was going to be back in time. If I had someone who took responsibility to get my kid--why should've I taken a cab to go get him, then have no way of getting my car and be without it for 2 days?

Please understand it was an emergency situation.

Definition of Emergency: a serious, unexpected, and often dangerous situation requiring immediate action.
My car was unexpectedly in a serious, potentially life threatening state that needed immediate attention.

I had to act fast so that the driver would get word before he started driving and I gave him the simplest instructions I could so that my sensitive son wouldn't be "left at school" for 2 hours after all the other children went home.

amother

Purple

Thu, Dec 29 2016, 1:13 am

amother wrote:

How is being stuck at a mechanic with a car that is unsafe to drive less of an "emergency" than an illness--if I had gone to pick up my kids with my car in that state I was told my car could've caught fire--so THAT should've been my emergency??!!. If I had a flat tire or busted radiator--would you say that's not an emergency? You've never met this guy, the principal understood our predicament and was able to intervene and he knows this guy's temperament. Again, if he would've at least have been NICE throughout all of this, I would feel gracious, but the fact that he wasn't willing to listen to reason or apologies from us at all.

I appreciated that he worked out with my babysitter to drop of my son at the doctor's office when she was still there--I would've gladly shown appreciation, but when he started yelling at us and refused to listen to us and "refused to take my son back to her" ruined it.

Your emergencies (which happen to anyone), are none of the drivers business. His only business is dropping your child of at his normal home stop.
You still fail to see the fault is on you. Not on the driver and not on the babysitter and not on the mechanic.

amother

Blonde

Thu, Dec 29 2016, 1:17 am

You really don't get it. You should have left the car at the mechanic and made difficult decisions over the phone. You had a responsibility to meet the bus, period.

Even if you think this was an emergency (and your life is going to be tough if you define ordinary bumps in the road as emergencies) wasn't it nice of the driver to go to a different house and wait with your son? Didn't he go out of his way for you? Isn't it possible that he had to be somewhere else and was delayed because he wouldn't leave your child alone?

You put someone else out. You regularly expect custom service. You don't seem to understand that the world doesn't revolve around you.

ETA, I have never heard of someone having a different drop off on Fridays.