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Do we really owe him anything?
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baby12x









  


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 1:58 pm
amother wrote:
I can't be the only one who doesn't have a "separate Friday location" In a family where there are 2 working parents with 40 work weeks, and all children who attend a program outside of the home so that there is no need for an "at home" babysitter? What about families where there's a single parent? or dual custody of children and they have to go to different homes?

Besides, I worked this arrangement out with the school--none of your business. One time I had an "urgent situation"--fine if you don't want to call it an emergency--and no in this case it wasn't so simple to handle it over the phone. Believe me, this threw me for a loop and I was scrambling to figure out things 'on the fly'. I understand that I made an error in planning which was mostly "post facto", but please understand that his error is that he's been holding this grudge for WEEKS already. I mean get over it, we've "held up our end" each time since then--besides for 1 time this week. I'm sorry that my car doesn't know how to jump over traffic. I'm sorry that I was spending most of my morning trying to decide if my kid was sick so we got out later than we wanted to. THINGS HAPPEN--but to demand a "Huge, like $100 tip," I think is ridiculous when I was willing to meet him to avoid him having to do more than necessary. I don't like tipping people who yell at me and don't listen to apologies.


Also, you are making it sound like there are two sides at fault here. There is only one. You are the kid who hits his brother and is then complaining that his brother yelled at him when he said "stop". He doesn't have to be nice to you, he doesn't need to be gracious, he doesn't need to let go. You need to take ownership of your actions and realize you caused his bad mood. None of this is on him
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PAMOM









  


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 2:01 pm
OP, are you even reading what we've all said?
I'm out. I know I don't know you. I hope I never get roped into doing business with you (unlikely). I'm posting under my name. Try as I might, I can't think of a non-pathological explanation for your attitude. There are many people on this site I disagree with. Many of us are immature or needy or intolerant at times; I know I am. You're one of the only truly members I've "met" who's truly unable to see beyond herself. I'm sorry for you because you won't know the pleasures life can offer when you're open to seeing through others' eyes.
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amother




Mistyrose


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 2:09 pm
OF COURSE WE APOLOGIZED!!! Why do you think that we didn't??!! We said we're sorry when it happened, my husband said sorry the next day, we said sorry a week later when we had to reestablish the drop-off point--b/c apparently no one's had a schedule change on them b/c of a change in job status mid-year. We must be so unique that you've never heard of it.

We had to go to the principal to ask him to intervene b/c I couldn't find another babysitter willing to come for only 2 hours on Friday on such short notice--besides I'd rather give my friend the parnassah.

Of course I was the courteous one who offered to meet him on Monday so he wouldn't have to go out of his way. He was the one using the demanding tone.

I wanted advice on how much would be appropriate to tip him b/c apparently he feels that we owe him the world on a silver platter, whereas I would've given my "usual" tip of max $20. As much as I appreciate the wonderful job that drivers and matrons do, we are not well-off financially and it's not within our means right now.
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amother




Mistyrose


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 2:16 pm
Wow, people on here are so unforgiving when people make mistakes. I don't know why I got this "difficult to work with" label. I'm really a very nice and understanding person and this person has a reputation of being "hot headed" and "stubborn". Out of almost 100 days of school, I "goofed" on 2 occasions, this makes me such a horrible parent, who's unreliable and ungrateful?

Please advise me, under normal 100% punctual, reliable, perfect world situations how much would you tip a driver who is calm, pleasant that you use mostly for 1-way transportation? I live in NYC.

How much would you give someone who's been rude, snarly, and giving you attitude?

I meant to say "Do we owe him anything extra" not anything at all.


Last edited by amother on Thu, Dec 29 2016, 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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debsey









  


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 2:19 pm
amother wrote:
OF COURSE WE APOLOGIZED!!! Why do you think that we didn't??!! We said we're sorry when it happened, my husband said sorry the next day, we said sorry a week later when we had to reestablish the drop-off point--b/c apparently no one's had a schedule change on them b/c of a change in job status mid-year. We must be so unique that you've never heard of it.

We had to go to the principal to ask him to intervene b/c I couldn't find another babysitter willing to come for only 2 hours on Friday on such short notice--besides I'd rather give my friend the parnassah.

Of course I was the courteous one who offered to meet him on Monday so he wouldn't have to go out of his way. He was the one using the demanding tone.

I wanted advice on how much would be appropriate to tip him b/c apparently he feels that we owe him the world on a silver platter, whereas I would've given my "usual" tip of max $20. As much as I appreciate the wonderful job that drivers and matrons do, we are not well-off financially and it's not within our means right now.


Great, you apologized. That's step one. Now you need to pay him for his time and aggravation. Everyone on this site is giving you the same feedback - yes, you do owe him this tip. If you don't have it, borrow it, get a couple of hours of extra work, or sell something. You don't have the right to inconvenience others. I do get how annoyed you were with his attitude, I would be too.

But if you're smart, you'll tip him. Keep in mind that he would be within his rights to call Child Protective Services on you, landing you in severe hot water that would take more than 100.00 to clear up. Should he call? No. But if he wants to be a jerk about it (and honestly, your attitude tells me that you'd probably make him be inclined to do so), and you are ever late meeting the bus again, he totally has the power to make your life miserable. Don't listen, and learn the hard way. It's totally up to you. Personally, I'd be smart about it.
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amother




Mistyrose


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 2:26 pm
debsey wrote:
Great, you apologized. That's step one. Now you need to pay him for his time and aggravation. Everyone on this site is giving you the same feedback - yes, you do owe him this tip. If you don't have it, borrow it, get a couple of hours of extra work, or sell something. You don't have the right to inconvenience others. I do get how annoyed you were with his attitude, I would be too.

But if you're smart, you'll tip him. Keep in mind that he would be within his rights to call Child Protective Services on you, landing you in severe hot water that would take more than 100.00 to clear up. Should he call? No. But if he wants to be a jerk about it (and honestly, your attitude tells me that you'd probably make him be inclined to do so), and you are ever late meeting the bus again, he totally has the power to make your life miserable. Don't listen, and learn the hard way. It's totally up to you. Personally, I'd be smart about it.


What??!! Based on what? I was there moments later. When no one is home he told me afterwards, they are to take the child back to school.
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abound









  


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 2:26 pm
If you are really financially strapped, then you have one other choice, give him 25$-50$, but really take a long hard look at yourself. Change your attitude towards him and make sure that you realize what you did wrong. Then sit down and write him a detailed apology letter, and express your gratitude toward him in the most lavish of terms. Explain how you wish you can take back what happened, how you wish you can give him a really big gratitude tip but this is what you can do now.
There is only one problem with it, you are still calling him tempered and hot headed (which he may be) and not realizing how much of a mistake you made, and how you made him feel like your personal chauffeur, by asking him to meet you with your child, by making him feel that even once you made up a meeting place he is taking a chance that you won't be there on time. (even if that is not true, but he felt that way)
You do not really realize it, you are still trying to get away with giving him the same usual tip, you are not realizing the amount of Hakaras Hatov and remourse you should feel. If you do not really feel it, your letter and attitude will show it.
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amother




Blonde


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 2:27 pm
amother wrote:
Wow, people on here are so unforgiving when people make mistakes. I don't know why I got this "difficult to work with" label. I'm really a very nice and understanding person and this person has a reputation of being "hot headed" and "stubborn". Out of almost 100 days of school, I "goofed" on 2 occasions, this makes me such a horrible parent, who's unreliable and ungrateful?

Please advise me, under normal 100% punctual, reliable, perfect world situations how much would you tip a driver who is calm, pleasant that you use mostly for 1-way transportation? I live in NYC.

How much would you give someone who's been rude, snarly, and giving you attitude?

I meant to say "Do we owe him anything extra" not anything at all.



You didn't "goof" twice. You took advantage of the driver.

The fact that you think it's reasonable to have two different stops for your child tells us that you don't understand the obligations of both parties here. It's not a driver's job to adjust the route for your convenience.

I'd be crabby if I had to drive your child too.

Yes, you owe a massive tip. And you need to understand that you are massively out of line.
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Squishy









  


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 2:29 pm
amother wrote:
I can't be the only one who doesn't have a "separate Friday location" In a family where there are 2 working parents with 40 work weeks, and all children who attend a program outside of the home so that there is no need for an "at home" babysitter? What about families where there's a single parent? or dual custody of children and they have to go to different homes?

Besides, I worked this arrangement out with the school--none of your business. One time I had an "urgent situation"--fine if you don't want to call it an emergency--and no in this case it wasn't so simple to handle it over the phone. Believe me, this threw me for a loop and I was scrambling to figure out things 'on the fly'. I understand that I made an error in planning which was mostly "post facto", but please understand that his error is that he's been holding this grudge for WEEKS already. I mean get over it, we've "held up our end" each time since then--besides for 1 time this week. I'm sorry that my car doesn't know how to jump over traffic. I'm sorry that I was spending most of my morning trying to decide if my kid was sick so we got out later than we wanted to. THINGS HAPPEN--but to demand a "Huge, like $100 tip," I think is ridiculous when I was willing to meet him to avoid him having to do more than necessary. I don't like tipping people who yell at me and don't listen to apologies.


There is no such thing as a "post facto" error mostly or otherwise. What are you trying to say with "post facto"? Your error had foreseeable consequences at the time for every adult on this thread. Only you think the consequence were not obvious. Every other mother should have made sure her 4 year old was safe and met at the bus.

You seem to think you are entitled to special treatment. Idiotic ignoring of a sensor light is not the same as an blowout. A two family intact home doesn't get the same special treatment as divorced or single folks. Do you not have any sympathy for those trying to raise children on their own? Why do you think you are such a special snow flake? Why is everyone else responsible for your flaws?

You claim somehow that it was a complicated decision to decide to fix a car that was unsafe to drive. This is an easy decision.

It is blatantly obvious to everyone else the driver deserves more than $100 tip. He deserves your respect at the minimum for the job you are complicating enormously.
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amother




Mistyrose


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 2:59 pm
Squishy wrote:
There is no such thing as a "post facto" error mostly or otherwise. What are you trying to say with "post facto"? Your error had foreseeable consequences at the time for every adult on this thread. Only you think the consequence were not obvious. Every other mother should have made sure her 4 year old was safe and met at the bus.

You seem to think you are entitled to special treatment. Idiotic ignoring of a sensor light is not the same as an blowout. A two family intact home doesn't get the same special treatment as divorced or single folks. Do you not have any sympathy for those trying to raise children on their own? Why do you think you are such a special snow flake? Why is everyone else responsible for your flaws?

You claim somehow that it was a complicated decision to decide to fix a car that was unsafe to drive. This is an easy decision.

It is blatantly obvious to everyone else the driver deserves more than $100 tip. He deserves your respect at the minimum for the job you are complicating enormously.


"post facto" means that when we made the plans they were a reasonable plan--at the time when he arrived--because we have no way of tracking him to know when he'll get to us we had to guess and our best guess was wrong. We weren't "ignoring" the sensor light, just based on the car's symptoms, were unaware of how dire the situation was, and being that I got out of work early, it was the perfect time to go get it checked out by our preferred mechanic near where I work--b/c most days, being a good parent, I go straight from work to pick up my kids so I won't be late.

There were no cabs or car services close by, from the time I found out that it would take another 2.5 hours to fix the car, it was about 5 mins to dismissal. It would've taken probably around 15 mins for a car service to come and then another 15 minutes to get home--likely not enough time to get my son either way. When you have a loyal friend--who you assume would be home b/c that's where your other child was anyway--that's the kind of decision you make. I also had to quickly make arrangements for my other son who was already enroute to a different bus stop. Stop making it like I'm such a "horrible, and careless mother" here.

I just spoke to a friend who also has a son on this van and apparently I'm not the only one having issues with this guy and other people want to complain as well.

I'm not asking for "Special treatment", I'm merely pointing out that I'm not "unique", parents make mistakes, get stuck in traffic, and have unavoidable delays. I'm only asking for a little understanding and compassion that being stuck in a compromised situation I was left without many options and despite numerous apologies, he still won't get over it, so that one time I make a genuine error on my part, he's demanding an outrageous amount when I literally agreed to meet him half-way.
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amother




Purple


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 3:10 pm
OP. Do you even read what people are saying?

You. Can. NOT. "Goof out" on a school bus driver. He has a fixed route with fixed stops for each kid. You're the only one I know of who gets the special treatment of a different Friday stop. YOU CAN NOT GIVE THE DRIVER INSTRUCTIONS AT ALL. No matter the emergency you're having. It's YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO PICK YOUR CHILD UP FROM HIS OWN BUSSTOP, or have someone else do it.

The bus driver is a bus driver. NOT A CAR SERVICE. NOT A CARPOOL DAD.

If I had to deal with you, I'd get hotheaded too.
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Liba









  


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 3:17 pm
amother wrote:

There were no cabs or car services close by, from the time I found out that it would take another 2.5 hours to fix the car, it was about 5 mins to dismissal. It would've taken probably around 15 mins for a car service to come and then another 15 minutes to get home--likely not enough time to get my son either way.


You said the repair took 3 hours, so you were only there half an hour and still fifteen minutes from home, five minutes before school ended. You really didn't allow very much time at all!

My mechanic is *never* that quick. Ever. I would allot more time even if I was only getting the tire pressure checked and windshield wipers replaced. I have to wait my turn to even get my car checked out.

Are there really mechanics who can be expected to fix cars in under 30 minutes?
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Squishy









  


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 3:41 pm
amother wrote:
"post facto" means that when we made the plans they were a reasonable plan--at the time when he arrived--because we have no way of tracking him to know when he'll get to us we had to guess and our best guess was wrong. We weren't "ignoring" the sensor light, just based on the car's symptoms, were unaware of how dire the situation was, and being that I got out of work early, it was the perfect time to go get it checked out by our preferred mechanic near where I work--b/c most days, being a good parent, I go straight from work to pick up my kids so I won't be late.

There were no cabs or car services close by, from the time I found out that it would take another 2.5 hours to fix the car, it was about 5 mins to dismissal. It would've taken probably around 15 mins for a car service to come and then another 15 minutes to get home--likely not enough time to get my son either way. When you have a loyal friend--who you assume would be home b/c that's where your other child was anyway--that's the kind of decision you make. I also had to quickly make arrangements for my other son who was already enroute to a different bus stop. Stop making it like I'm such a "horrible, and careless mother" here.

I just spoke to a friend who also has a son on this van and apparently I'm not the only one having issues with this guy and other people want to complain as well.

I'm not asking for "Special treatment", I'm merely pointing out that I'm not "unique", parents make mistakes, get stuck in traffic, and have unavoidable delays. I'm only asking for a little understanding and compassion that being stuck in a compromised situation I was left without many options and despite numerous apologies, he still won't get over it, so that one time I make a genuine error on my part, he's demanding an outrageous amount when I literally agreed to meet him half-way.




You story is getting more kooky. You said it was 3 hours to fix your car. Who goes to the mechanic half an hour before pick up time? I wouldn't get even an oil change and expect to meet a school bus in half an hour. Do you think this guy had a bay free for you and all the parts ready to fix your car?

How do you know there were no cabs nearby? You didn't call. You were not in a compromised situation. You created your situation.

I'll bet you will find people agree with you a lot IRL because they shine you on. If I had to deal with you, I would agree with you also because it is a waste of breathe trying to have you have empathy. You are difficult to deal with.

I never made a mistake meeting the bus, didn't account for traffic, nor ever ever ever had an unavoidable delay picking up my children. Frankly, I don't know anyone at all who ever abandoned responsibility for their 4 year old like you did. BTW I live in a community where I am appalled at some of the child safety practices, but I have never seen buses not met. This is totally unacceptable by everyone's standards.

You seem to have two children. What is this carpool?

Rules for you to live by:

Post facto is not an expression. Don't use it.

Do not ignore sensor lights. Do not try to diagnose the symptoms. You are incapable. Light goes on - fix car. If you don't care about others on the road or in your car, then fix it so you are safe.

You are responsible for your children. There is no excuse for not picking them up.

Be nice to those you mess up. You will do it again and again.

If you are ever in the situation again, please post or contact DH for how to handle it like other moms do.
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Iymnok









  


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 4:25 pm
Op, I think what is bothering everyone here is that you are not acknowledging anything said here and are only offering excuses. With every post it's just more excuses. I don't know from bussing and tips, but I do know that when someone refuses to take responsibility for their own actions, regardless how minor, and apologize even if not 100% at fault, makes people around them upset and leaves a bad taste in their mouth.
You're better off assuming your own guilt and the other persons innocence. Apologize for the infraction THEY see, not what you perceive.

You may likely both be in the wrong. Be the stronger one and take the responsibility. It doesn't hurt and it's a great investment.
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amother




Olive


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 4:44 pm
OP, it seems like you have work to do to graduate from a child's mindset.

In school as a student, if you had a reason like this you might be excused for your tardiness and lack of proper foresight and arrangements. You might cajole the attendance teacher long enough to get her to excuse you.

But now you're an adult. Excuses don't work. We all have busy lives. We all have many obligations. We all have unforeseen circumstances.

But we are all held accountable.

Your refusal to take responsibility is the crux of the issue here. You didn't realize how long the mechanic would take. An adult mindset would be - I made a mistake. I drastically underestimated the amount of time it would take to repair my car, and I seriously inconvenienced my child's bus driver. I will apologize profusely and tip him for the extra time he had to work because of me.

Instead, you are displaying a child's mentality. Whining "But it wasn't my fault!" is not going to help endear you to people you need on your side as you go through life.

Even if it was a situation which was completely out of your control (and it does not sound like that), you still need to accept responsibility for the fact that you seriously inconvenienced someone.

It doesn't matter what your excuse is. Fact is, you made someone go majorly out of their way. You were the cause of this. Piling on excuses after excuses is an indication that you have a lot of inner work ahead of you to develop the adult mindset you must have as a parent and member of society.
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amother




Powderblue


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 5:03 pm
OP,
You sound almost like me. In general I am put together but when something comes up last minute I get frazzled and even my best, last-minute arrangements somehow sometimes fall apart.

The thing is in the rare situations like that when things do fall apart, the first thing I do is OWN UP TO IT!! I know it's my fault and will do anything to apologize and make sure that situation never happens again.

I feel like if the bus driver got that attitude from you on the first occasion, (which is when he maybe should have gotten the $25 tip), he wouldn't have given you attitude for a full week.

I'm the first person to not mind going out of my way for someone but if it seems they don't appreciate it or realize how out of the way it was for me, you bet I get resentful!
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SixOfWands









  


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 5:07 pm
OP, let's change the focus here.

You don't feel that you were at fault, because you encountered things you feel could not have been foreseen.

But that doesn't mean that the bus driver was not inconvenienced.

Changing up a route once a week is an inconvenience. Even if its not something weird or unusual or anything else. It means driving a different route. It likely means that other kids are dropped off at somewhat different times than on other days, potentially inconveniencing their parents.

Maybe you could not have foreseen that you would be stuck at the auto mechanic, or that your sitter would not be available. But that doesn't mean that the bus driver was not inconvenienced, first by altering his route at the last minute, and next by the fact that there was no one to take your child off the bus, and he presumably had to wait for her to arrive. (Were there other kids on the bus? Were their parents upset by their arriving late?)

Maybe you could not have foreseen getting stuck in traffic, or the bus arriving earlier than usual. But the driver was, again, delayed because of it. And, unless you were the last stop, so were the other children and parents.

IOW, even if you were 100% right, it doesn't make the bus driver's position any less valid.

Now, try to learn from your experience. Things happen, even if they're not your fault. Someone once failed to show up at a meeting with me. It turns out that she left plenty of time, but there was an accident, and she was stuck for well over an hour until it was cleared. Now imagine if she had needed to pick up a child.

(1) If there is anyone else at your bus stop, agree that should one of you be late, you'll take the others' kids. We've had people be a couple of minutes late due to traffic, or dealing with a baby. Or because a child forgot to stay for an after-school activity, and took the wrong bus home. Or lots of things.

(2) Always check with your sitter before sending a child there at anything other than a pre-arranged time. I understand that you thought she's be there. But she wasn't, and hadn't specifically been told to be there.

(3) Leave extra time.
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youngishbear









  


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 5:28 pm
I want to point out to OP that even if you arranged with the school to have a different drop-off address one day a week, the driver probably had little say in the matter. His boss told him to do this extra complicated thing, and he had to comply. If he started off with some resentment towards you for that alone, it would be perfectly understandable.

He is the one you needed to placate here, not simply dismiss it as "I arranged it with the school, so it's all good, and he's just crabby".
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amother




Mustard


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 5:38 pm
I pick up my kids from school every day because it's on the way home from work, except Friday, when I don't work. That means technically the driver has a different schedule Fridays.

I checked with the school and the driver before making this arrangement. It's the same address as the morning pickup so that's not terribly confusing. Point is, there are cases where alternate arrangements can be made.

Generally their school has a system for bus changes. There is a designated time until when you can call in and arrange a different transportation plan. They usually accommodate parents, assuming it's crucial, as long as there already is a designated stop at the alternate address or nearby. Friday there are no bus changes at all because of the time constraints.

It wouldn't occur to me to call the driver and make changes that way. I had an emergency once and turned the world over to get someone to wait for my child at a designated stop further along. And I felt terribly guilty about it...

Complications happen. But a)appreciate the above and beyond special treatment and b)apologize for inconveniencing others.
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shev









  


Post  Thu, Dec 29 2016, 5:48 pm
OH wow. Why we judging the op so harshly. Life happens, problems pop up when we don't expect them to. Cut the op some slack.
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