New shopping mall opening in Lakewood??

debsey

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 4:50 pm

Look, is she shrill? Yes. Does she sound like everyone's aunt, scolding them? Sure. I have PTSD listening to her, she sounds like my least favorite third grade teacher.

But she moved to a quiet, residential town, bought a house in a retirement community that is supposed to be zoned to be quiet, and all of a sudden, the township changes the zoning on her and puts in a huge, urban-style mall?! Of course she's angry.

And it does change the spiritual quality of the town, having a shopping mall literally within the community. I can't imagine any suburban area being happy about a mall being built on their doorstep, rather than being built in an area zoned as "industrial." It's not only a spiritual argument (although there is that), it's also a quality of life argument, a safety issue, and a pollution issue.

There's also the fact that the township is giving this mall very preferential treatment, including tax abatement, which means we put up with all the hassle, pollution, noise, and added traffic, with no easing of the town's tax burden. So what do we, the taxpayers, get out of this?

MagentaYenta

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 5:05 pm

debsey wrote:

I didn't get where she moved there to retire. She made it sound like she came for the conformity of a town that suited her levels of religiosity and to spare her kids the 'evils' of living in a city.

If citizens are upset about development in Lkwd I suggest they attend planning commission meeting and get involved with general land use issues, such as density and infrastructure.

Lakewoods growth from 2000-2010 didn't happen in a vacuum. There are well over 100k living in the township, with less than 1/2 voting. This is a partial reason why growth is pretty much unrestricted.

ETA: Like many towns within the urban sprawl of NJ, Lkwd has no tax base except for real estate. Even with tax abatements eventually the property will pay it's way (hopefully) or the residents will continue to carry the burden.

amother

Mint

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 6:00 pm

The problem is that it is being built right in the center of thousands of frum homes and developements. I was told that is land that is owned by BMG, and being built by frum investors. No one would make an issue if it would be used for a strip mall of frum stores, or office buildings. (Although it is already one of the most congested traffic areas). If it would be land owned and developed by non jews-then it wouldn't be as painful. Although they are hopefully rumors, there have been store names mentioned such as as Victoria Secret, a theatre etc. The thought that our Yeshiva and well-known devolopers/askanim are the ones behind this, is very painful. The location is literally walking distance (2-8 blocks) from most of our wonderful elementary and high schools, aside from all the frum homes. We don't want our boys walking across the street to 'hang out' in a mall. We have enough crime already. We don't want to bring more unsavory people to the area. It brings out the ugly truth that making money is more important than maintaining the basic kedusha and safety of our neighborhood.

debsey

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 6:07 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

I saw another version of this video, and the person said that these were the residents of Pine River Village (a retirement community) who were coming to protest the mall being built literally across the street from their quiet retirement homes. If you don't believe me, just look at all the people with her. Average age is at least 65-70.

And with tax abatement - the property won't pay its way! That's the whole point of tax abatement. They don't pay taxes, and when it expires, they pay greatly reduced taxes. Like the stadium, which inconveniences everyone and does not actually pay taxes! How is this fair?

debsey

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 6:13 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

I really couldn't determine the age of the woman, but I'll take your word for it. That alas is the downside of living in a township with poor zoning.

And that's why she was at the zoning meeting, protesting the rezoning of that area. You have to wonder - if our elected officials know this is going to be unpopular, and they know they are alienating their voter base, what's their incentive for doing this?

MagentaYenta

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 6:21 pm

debsey wrote:

Thank you for filling me in about the rezoning. Now you pose an interesting question. It all makes me grateful for the integrity of my local zoning committee. I can have chickens, hang out my laundry, paint the exterior of my residence any color I like. My neighbors cannot tear down their house on a double lot and make a 3 story 7K sq ft McMansion, nor can they use their property as an auto repair business (just some examples of local zoning restrictions where I live).

amother

Babypink

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 6:53 pm

I live in the pine street area. I bought my house when it was quiet and rural.
Now I'm no idiot. I work in the real estate/ development field.. lakewood s growing and continuing to grow. I can't deny that. But this is past the natural growth curve-
we need smart growth!

I can sit in pine street traffic for 20 minutes to go three blocks to my babysitter. This is plain insane.

The township needs a plan. We're busting as it is . 100 s of families moving to the cedarbridge area, 100s of families moving to oak ... our streets can't handle all this. We are treating the area as if it's nyc instead of what it was zoned to be.

To add this shopping mall may be a huge convenience- but at what cost? Put it on on a major thoroughfare , not a Little street that is always clogged.

I believe the yeshiva is behind this and it only boils down to $$$$$ and that makes me mad. Oh, and they own the township officials too, so no help there either

PinkFridge

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 7:05 pm

scrltfr wrote:

Seriously? This is america. You don't want a mall? Go move in with the taliban. Traffic issues I get, but saying it is ir hakodesh? Seriously? It is a city in america that also happens to have a large latino population.

The theater sounds especially problematic. I get some of the other issues too. And will try to stay out of this conversation if I can.

MagentaYenta

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 7:16 pm

amother wrote:

Oh yeah, and the theater! Who remembers how our houses rocked and buzzed and vibrated this past Rosh Hashana for 4 days when they had that rock festival in blue claws- absolutely nuts!!!

I don't know if you've been to a movie theater lately, it is quite unlike the open air concerts at the stadium. You cannot hear the sound of the films outdoors. In fact most theaters now show multiple films so each screening area is rather well soundproofed so that it doesn't disturb film goers in another theater.

But even considering the sound insulating qualities of contemporary movie theaters, what is the problem of a theater? There are Jews that go to movies and there are people other than Jews who also use theaters. No one is forcing you to go.

amother

Beige

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 7:21 pm

listen, I hear concerns over the building a mall in a residential area. I really really do. however this woman isnt upset over that. her rant had nothing to do with those concerns.

what I found most upsetting was her line "go to Flatbush, go to queens, but not in this ir hatorah!" excuse me, but if you want to be so frum, maybe don't put down two entire beautiful frum communities, who have plenty of torah.

I don't understand this mentality of many (notice I said many not all) Lakewood people who seriously think Lakewood is the center of the world, and has a monopoly on torah. I've seen this time and time again. I've had sooo many people tell me, no one really frum lives anywhere but Lakewood anymore. allll the young couples who are frum live in Lakewood. noooone who is really frum lives in Flatbush or anywhere anymore.

it really upsets me.

amother

Babypink

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 7:26 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

I saw the proposed plans- this is an outdoor theater

sourstix

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 7:26 pm

Ok. Let's cool down a little. We really don't want a mall in the middle of Lakewood. Can we do something about it? No let's just accept it. It's coming anyway. Unless you can influence bmg to stop this. Otherwise let's move on to something better

Yes r' Aron wanted this to be ir hatorah, but it's America and it's a free country. It's not communism.
I'm not saying I'm ok with this. I'm saying this isn't something we are gonna win. As long as this is a free country.
I think if bmg wouldn't want this they would make a stop to this.

Last edited by sourstix on Wed, Jan 04 2017, 7:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

MagentaYenta

Wed, Jan 04 2017, 7:28 pm

amother wrote:

Thank you, that's what I got from the video I posted. It seemed to me that this woman wanted a community that ascribed to her brand of Judaism. I don't where you can find that, Monsey? KY?