Which sleep training method (long)

amother

Wheat

Thu, Jan 05 2017, 11:23 am

I have Weissbluth, baby whisperer, and the sleep lady shuffle book. Other options are also welcome because I am having a very difficult time here.

Baby is 5 months old.

Bedtime "schedule" is as follows - baby goes to sleep somewhere between 7 & 8 depending on when naps were and how tired he looks. He gets wrapped up, held for a few minutes, and aiming to put down "drowsy but awake". Confused

Sometimes goes to sleep nicely, sometimes it takes a while.
Approximately an hour later he wakes up SCREAMING. and screams for an hour. Soothing in crib does nothing. Picking up baby doesn't calm him. Nursing calms him, or prolonged, prolonged rocking. He's usually up for over an hour.
Then another 45 min - 1 hr nap or so, and he's up again by 11 screaming. Sometimes another cycle, sometimes more screaming. Basically 7-12 sleeping consists of a few short naps.

B"H he usually sleeps from 12-3, and at 3 I nurse him and he stays in my bed for the rest of the night. Usually nurses another 2 times, but at least goes back to sleep after eating.

How can I organize the evening so that this poor tired baby gets some sleep, and his poor mother gets to do something drastic like eat supper or wash the dishes?

(All my books are pretty useless. Baby Whisperer advocates pick up / put down - but he doesn't calm down with just a pick up! Sleep lady shuffle starts out calming baby sitting next to crib LOL

. And I don't really want to go with Weissbluth's extinction CIO. So which would you wise ladies recommend)

amother

Wheat

Thu, Jan 05 2017, 12:09 pm

hmm... good point. Possibly. He's been trying to bite me every so often.
But honestly, this evening witching hour has been going on for months. At 3 months I just assumed it was normal crying, but now he should grow out of it eventually. (I know, they all do, but sooner rather than later please)

amother

Peach

Thu, Jan 05 2017, 12:24 pm

I am a huge baby whisperer fan. Her method is so rational and easy to implement. I highly recommend getting her second book "baby whisperer answers all your questions"
According to her:
At 5 months old your baby should sleep a few hours at night without eating.
Either he is not getting enough calories during the day and is hungry at night and wants to make up for it.
Or, he is nursing out of habit.
If he wakes up erratically at night it's hunger, if at the same time every night and he's not nursing a full feed it is habit. Start by keeping a log of what time he wakes for a few nights. And if you can, give him a bottle and see how many ounces he is actually eating.
Also rule out if it is a comfort issue. Is his room too hot or cold? Too loud? Too light? Does he have reflux?
Once you have figured out the problem then you can start implementing solutions.

amother

Wheat

Thu, Jan 05 2017, 1:02 pm

amother wrote:

I have that book. I think it's a sleep issue. He wakes up 45 min - 1 hour after he went to sleep, so I assume it's a sleep cycle change. I tried wake to sleep a few times but had no luck

agreer

Thu, Jan 05 2017, 2:15 pm

It sounds like he's not eating enough during the day. Your nursing him 5 times at night?! That's too much. There's no way you can train him yet.

You need to try to get him to eat more during the day. You may need to supplement.

I know you don't like CIO, but it works! And honestly, it seems like your baby will cry less with CIO than other methods. He'll cry 2-3 nights for a few hours TOTAL instead of 2 hours every night for the next month.

lucky14

Thu, Jan 05 2017, 2:55 pm

I had baby whisperer and that PU/PD thing did not work for me. I read Weissbluth's book and did CIO. Cried for less than 20 minutes (may have even been only 15) the first night and that was that basically. Some nights he'd cry for a few minutes, I go in and tell him it's time to sleep and give him his pacifier if it'd fallen out and then I'd leave right away and wouldn't go back again and he'd almost always go back to sleep within 5-10 minutes. Now at 12 months old it's been months since he's had trouble falling asleep on his own.

Seriously just try CIO. I left the house and my husband stayed home that first night because I knew I'd feel too bad and want to go in there to comfort him.

also you really shouldn't be nursing him so much at night unless your doc has told you to. He may be waking up and confused at why sometimes you nurse him and other times you don't.

amother

Peach

Thu, Jan 05 2017, 4:01 pm

If he wakes up after less than an hour he is probably over tired or over stimulated from his day. Try to get him into bed earlier and also minimize how stimulated he is during the day. Try just doing calm activities, no loud music or bouncy, vibrating or swingy things. For some babies even a bright colored playmat is too stimulating to do for more than a few minutes.
I also prefer doing shhh pat than pu/pd when getting them to sleep.

Some people are ok with cio, personally I am not, so I've stuck to baby whisperer.
Edited to add: most cry it out promoters say not to do it before 6-8 months old

amother

Sapphire

Thu, Jan 05 2017, 6:19 pm

amother wrote:

Some people are ok with cio, personally I am not, so I've stuck to baby whisperer.
Edited to add: most cry it out promoters say not to do it before 6-8 months old

W/ my pediatrician's blessing, we did CIO at 4 months (like, literally the weekend after his 4 month check up) and B"H it was one of the best parenting decisions we made.

He cried for 1 hour the first night, nothing the 2nd, and 20 minutes the 3rd... He's been falling asleep on his own since then and sleeping through the night since 7 months. Seriously, peeps...it's the best FOR THE CHILD.

As Dr. Marc Weissbluth says, don't be afraid to do the best for your baby.

amother

Babypink

Thu, Jan 05 2017, 6:30 pm

I had a very similar story with my baby FINALLY after months of doctor hopping I found out that my baby didn't feel secure at night. He would only calm down if he could sleep on me. So now I bought him a very heavy down blanket which gives him this comfortable feeling and now FINALY after months he sleeps like a baby Wink

Wishing you loads of luck its nerve wrecking to be sleep deprived!!

mille

Thu, Jan 05 2017, 9:08 pm

Check out the preciouslittlesleep.com website. It has a lot of great info about sleep training. Some salient bits:

AWAKE is the goal, NOT "drowsy but awake". Drowsy but awake is the goal for a newborn, under 3 months. At 5 months, if sleep training is your goal, you can't rock/nurse/etc partly to sleep and expect it to go well.

Put feeding/nursing at the first part of the bedtime routine. Do a solid bedtime routine every single night. A common one would be: nurse, bath, pajamas, book, lullaby, in crib awake and leave.

White noise can really help, something to consider.

Whatever method you use, consistency is key. You can't start extinction (Weissbluth) and then 2 days in decide you want to go pick baby up. You'll have to start all over again.

Good luck!

amother

Blue

Thu, Jan 05 2017, 9:36 pm

I used the book sleep easy solution, my sister in law told me about it and it worked like magic. Essentially you need to let them cry but the book comes with solid advice and sensitivity to parents who are uncomfortable with their baby crying (who isnt?) my five month old had been waking every couple hours...would only go back to sleep in my bed and kept me up most of the night. On the first night of training he already slept longer stretches, and a week or two later he now sleeps 11-12 hours straight in his crib. Im a new mom. I found the book reviews on amazon really helpful also...babies at this age dont need to eat at night the book helps you wean their nighttime feedings and they will eat more during the day, and essentially they learn toself soothe so when they wake up they can put themselves back to sleep. When you pick them up and rock/cradle etc you are being a crutch, babies need to learn to fall asleep on their own...and its a skill for life...babies need consistency so if you choose to sleep train and then go back to soothing it will only make them cry more and for longer periods of time(note- when baby is teething/reaches a new milestone or is sick you may have to start over and its definitely not a time to let them cry)

amother

Amber

Thu, Jan 05 2017, 11:35 pm

I just did this method tonight. its a positive reinforcement 'CIO' of sorts. (The article says its 6 steps, but its really only the first 3 steps, the others are just random points she wants to make.) http://www.bonbonbreak.com/6-e.....ning/

Basically, you calm yourself and put on a smile. Get the baby comfy, do a pre-bed routine (ex: bath, read a story, nurse, and shema). Put baby in bed calm and happy, smile and tell him you love him and to go to sleep nicely and you will come back soon. Leave and come back very soon if he isn't crying, if he starts to cry, come in as soon as he starts quieting down. Smile, pat tell him yore proud he's going to sleep nicely, and that you will come back soon. Leave again and repeat.

My baby got hysterical, but started calming after 7 min so I went in then, smiled, told him I love him and I was proud that he's going to sleep, and that I'd be back soon. (When I came in he started crying more, but I left anyway.) He calmed down after 3 minutes the second time so I went in and repeated my lines, he did start crying a bit more when I came in, but calmed down within a minute. Then I waited a few minutes of quiet and went in again, he was almost asleep, I repeated my lines. When I came back 5 min later I repeated my lines but he was fast asleep, B"H. Been sleeping for an hour and a half now and I am davening that this is the beginning of a new, better tekufa for us! Until now he'd only fall asleep nursing or being pushed I the stroller and would wake up very frequently.

Good luck!

pesek zman

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 7:37 am

MyUsername wrote:

Weissbluth's CIO changed our lives. If you don't like pure cry it out, you could always try Ferber, who has a more graduated approach (you never let them cry for more than a a certain amount of time), but I never tried it myself.

I did Ferber and liked it, but make sure your husband is on board because it requires consistency and Frankly its hard to hear them cry (I made my husband go in each time) But as they get older, sleep is a moving target and there's always something to set them back (jet lag, illness, teething, developmental stage) so weve done CIO too

nyc123

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 10:51 am

Only offering this because you said you were open to hearing other ideas- have you thought about just cosleeping? It makes things much easier, especially when nursing. Think about it... the baby will wake up to nurse in the middle of the night, but won't cry because he'll find you sleeping right next to him and just latch on. You get to stay in your bed, asleep. You will wake up much more refreshed and there's nothing to feel guilty about because it is good for baby and you.

Again, only mentioned this because you were open to other options, not to persuade you if you've already decided on a different plan. If you are interested in looking into it, this site has a good summary of the benefits- http://www.askdrsears.com/topi.....eping

amother

Wheat

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 11:32 am

Thanks all! Will give it some thought - I think I can't CIO until 6 months so I have time to go crazy before then.

I cosleep from after babies first night feed. Unfortunately, I can't go to sleep at 7PM Sad

I also can't even lie down with baby then, because I put a different child in my bed so that he doesn't keep his brother up. I also never found that the baby latched on while I was asleep. I have to wake up enough to latch him. And sometimes nursing isn't enough. But B"H the 3-7 part of the night isn't that bad.

How do you do a baby bedtime routine if you have older kids that also go to sleep at similar times? Currently baby sits on my lap while older kids get books read, say shema, etc but that may be overstimulating for the baby. (and since putting him to sleep takes time, he has to wait while I tuck in some other kids before I start with him)