I want a tatoo! | Imamother

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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

I want a tatoo!

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amother

Seashell

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 4:45 am

So im a frum mom, happily married with a gorgeous child! And I want a tatoo! No not a public one. Somewere very private and I dress very tzniut so its for myself. My question is how bad is it to get one?!!! I really love them! And iv alwaysss wanted one! And no im not being rebelious I just think they can be really attractive and I like the look. Any one hav an idea halachicly?

grace413

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 4:51 am

It's assur from the Torah.

Maybe you could get one of those temporary tatoos.

amother

Seashell

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 5:29 am

I guess my question is how assur? Does it effect afterlife? Any source? I wrote frum because thats how I feel in my heart. Even though im not perfect (I do cover my hair, send my child to religious school etc) I still like to know the ins and outs. An outsider would consider me modern orthodox.

grace413

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 6:05 am

Nobody really knows what affects afterlife. The rumuor that if you have a tatoo you cannot be buried in a Jewish cemetery is not true.

But when it is specifically written in the Torah that this cannot be done, that's assur enough for me - I am also MO. This is not a social construct or community standards or even d'rabbanan or a fence.

As for being perfect, none of us are.

amother

Seashell

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 6:56 am

I hear ya. Problem. Thats still not put me off though!

gp2.0

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 7:12 am

Just get a temporary one. Good advice for ANYONE who wants a tattoo, regardless of religious affiliation. You can use henna which lasts a little longer if mikvah isn't a concern. Think of it this way - instead of just getting ONE tattoo, you can get hundreds of tattoos. If you get bored of a design or outgrow it you just let it fade away and get a new one.

JoyInTheMorning

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 7:20 am

Amother seashell, I'm just curious, so please don't take this question the wrong way. Getting a tattoo is explicitly forbidden from the Torah (Vayikra, perek 19). It's also discussed in the Mishnah (Makot).

There's certainly no explicit prohibition on showing hair in the Torah -- those who say that covering hair is from the Torah point to the description of the Kohen Gadol messing up the hair of the accused Sotah, but that's not the same as a "thou shalt not". And certainly many consider it to be Dat Yehudit, or Jewish custom.

How is it that you've committed to cover your hair, but still want a tattoo?

I realize we're all inconsistent, but I'm just curious as to whether this is a kind of cognitive dissonance, or you really see it differently.

(As regards your question: Although I have no desire ever for any tattoo or piercing, I have heard that there's an argument to be made that the prohibition in the Torah refers to tattoos made for purposes of mourning. (That is the context of the issur.) )

Maya

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 8:14 am

gp2.0 wrote:

This is what I do. A friend of mine does henna tattoos, and I mix it up every few weeks. It's not only the design that can be changed, but also where on the body it's inked. I like that.

I remember seeing a news article about a new kind of tattoo that will last for about one year. I wonder about the halachic implications of that.

mommy3b2c

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 8:19 am

Get a henna tattoo. That's what I do .

eschaya

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 8:36 am

Another vote for a henna tattoo. I've done it a few times and love it. And you can vary the design and location (including some more risqué versions) whenever you want. A good one can last a few weeks. Also, I've been told that it's not a problem for mikvah.

amother

Dodgerblue

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 9:22 am

The reason why tattoos are assured is because it uses to be a pagan practice to ink yourself with a picture of or the name of your god(s). Thus tattoos = avodah Zara. I have heard a rabbi day that if that is not your intention then it is fine but that is not the general opinion. Also, people with tattoos can be buried in a Jewish cemetery. There is no truth to that myth.

amother

Denim

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 9:42 am

I didn't realize so many woman sported tattoos. can someone explain the thrill of it? genuinely want to know.

sweetdimples

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 9:56 am

Never heard about the pagen practice reference, but learnt that tattooing is Assur in regard to permanently imprinting your body ( maybe also cuz of the pain infliction ?) we are required to treat our body as Kadosh etc.

Ashrei

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 10:14 am

As soon as I saw this thread I thought "Henna!" but I see everyone else also had that chiddush Wink

Should be a sign op. Makes me want to do it too actually Smile

Maya

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 11:00 am

Another option is the temporary sticker ones. Some of them look very real.

amother

Jetblack

Fri, Jan 06 2017, 3:27 pm

I also love tattoos. There's henna tattoos which last around 3-4 weeks. It's not a sticker so it looks super real. It's some kind of ink (waterproof)!!
I would love to get real ones but I don't think it's an option

imasoftov

Sat, Jan 07 2017, 11:46 am

amother wrote:

In Mishneh Makkot 3:6 Rabbi Shimon writes that one is only subject to lashes if a tattoo contains "the name". The Gemara (21a) explains that this is the name of an idol. But the halacha is not according to Rabbi Shimon - neither Rambam (Hilchot Avodah Zara 12:11) nor the Shulchan Aruch (Yoreh Deah 180) limit the prohibition against tattoos to names of idols, even though Rambam writes that it was the practice of idol worshippers to tattoo themselves.

FranticFrummie

Sat, Jan 07 2017, 1:49 pm

Caveat: I am not paskening for anybody!

There is a minority opinion - the Torah specifically states that you should not cut or tattoo your body for the dead. It was a pagan sign of mourning. The opinion is that if the tattoo is done as a way of celebrating life, or for personal beautification, with no intent of pagan or memorial meaning, then it is allowed. This is the major opinion among the Reform and Conservative, and very minority among the Orthodox.

I have a Jewish friend who is a tattoo artist, and she refuses to tattoo names of any kind, or any kind of "in memoriam" patterns. She will not tattoo a statue of a Buddha, the Virgin Mary, etc. She will do flowers and vines, abstract blackwork, hearts, and other generic types of designs. She also will not do anything in Hebrew script.

If you have tattoos and you convert, there is no obligation or expectation for you to have them removed. Many authorities say that you cannot have them removed, because the process can create scarring which is not medically necessary.

I have 7 tattoos, from my pre-observant days. I would love to get more, but I am uncomfortable with the lenient opinions, and until I feel 100% sure that it would be muttar, I am going to refrain. I think that as it stands, it's too much of a gray area, halachically.

As to why I would want them? Because I find them beautiful and meaningful to me. Aesthetically, I like them for the same reason other women like blue eye shadow, bright nail polish, or long and expensive sheitels. I just like pretty things, and I understand that not everyone has the same definition of "pretty". As far as being meaningful, I chose designs that I came up with on my own, usually resulting from dreams that gave me a lot of insight into my life. It's deeply personal, and not for other people to analyze or comment on.

imasoftov

Sat, Jan 07 2017, 2:06 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Caveat: I am not paskening for anybody!

... the Torah specifically states that you should not cut or tattoo your body for the dead.

What the Torah says in Vayikra 19:28 is

'וְשֶׂרֶט לָנֶפֶשׁ לֹא תִתְּנוּ בִּבְשַׂרְכֶם וּכְתֹבֶת קַעֲקַע לֹא תִתְּנוּ בָּכֶם אֲנִי ה

This is not, as you put it, "you should not cut or tattoo your body for the dead", but rather you should not cut yourself for the dead or tattoo your body. Note that I only am responding to the part of your post that I quoted.

imasinger

Sat, Jan 07 2017, 8:57 pm

OP, I'm curious what your aim was in posting.

If you were looking for help controlling your YH in wanting something that is forbidden, or in finding a work around, great.

The temporary or henna ideas make sense.

I'll also offer sympathy for the struggle. I don't want a tattoo, but I'd like to be able to sing as loudly as I want in shul, or to give a public concert, or sing in a mixed choir.

We all have our taivos.

However, if you were looking to hear from other frum women who have chosen to reject this halacha and get a tattoo, you probably are out of luck, as it's against site rules to encourage actions against halacha.

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