Any Lakewood girls schools without a "tights" rule?

amother

Floralwhite

Thu, Jan 12 2017, 12:05 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I agree that focusing on only one aspect of a school, such as whether they allow socks vs. tights, is rather limiting, and it's a good idea to look at the whole Hashkafa and parent body of a school when making a choice.

However, I disagree with and protest the last sentence. Not that I'm very familiar with the school - I actually don't know anyone that sends there - but I can't imagine that it is not a BY type school, and I think it's really not nice to say that.

I also think there might be other, excellent schools in town that have a slightly more relaxed approach to tznius in very young students. I'm not sure what their policy is, but for example I don't think Bnos Esther Malka requires tights yet - their oldest grade is 4th, so they may introduce rules as their students get a bit older....I have nieces in BEM and it is well-run, with an excellent staff and nice parent body.

I'm saying that because I DO know someone who reluctantly sends her dd's to that school and is very unhappy with what they school allows. When she mentioned it to the administration (that wearing nail polish, listening to the radio, watching videos, etc. is clearly not allowed according to the student handbook) they said that it's out of their hands, all the families are like this. If this is what op is looking for than go for it. But they do not have BY hashkafos there.

Chayalle

Thu, Jan 12 2017, 12:15 pm

amother wrote:

I hear. I think the first part of your post is good advice. However to say this about a school, on a public forum, might be in violation of Hilchos Shmiras Halashon. It may also be Onaas Devorim, and hurtful to the poster who posted, under her screen name, that she is a parent there. I think it's possible to make your point without doing that.

amother

Plum

Thu, Jan 12 2017, 12:19 pm

amother wrote:

I went to a very rw BY school in Brooklyn. We were allowed to watch videos at home - they trusted our parents to vet movies appropriately, we were allowed to wear nail polish out of school (in school, only clear), lots of families listened to the radio... And most of us were really yeshivish. BY hashkafos are a range...

mamaleh

Thu, Jan 12 2017, 2:42 pm

To answer a few things about AT.

About BYA: I can't really say either way. I don't know much about BYA, but we were told that this is not going to change much about the way the school is.

In terms of the hashkafos: Floralwhite, I'm not sure who your friend is and who they spoke to but that is definitely not what I was told when I had a similar conversation with Mrs. Insel. There definitely are parents that allow their girls to do & wear things that the school might not consider appropriate (that happens to be true in EVERY school, don't kid yourself). Instead of kicking kids out or majorly embarrassing them (and/or their parents) the school works with the girls & the families in a respectful way. There are times when they might turn a blind eye to a 'breach' of the rules, but it is done carefully & with a lot of thought and consideration of the 'bigger picture'.
There are a number of families that watch videos but (in my experience) that number is shrinking (whereas in other schools my friends tell me it is growing).
I do know a large part of the parent body and everyone I talk to agrees that AT is one of (if not the) best schools around.

We are a yeshivish family and are soooo happy that we found AT and that our girls were accepted (I know a number of people who weren't). I have no problem teaching my girls that just because other frum people around you do/say/read/eat/wear something, that doesn't mean it is appropriate for you or for our family. I think that that type of acceptance and personal responsibility is important for children to learn. My friends' kids (in some of the schools I'm sure you would call BY type) are much more likely to eat/read/do things that I think aren't appropriate because they see their friend/classmate doing it so they assume it's acceptable. My kids know to ask and think for themselves.

If anyone has any additional questions/concerns about AT, feel free to pm me.

JoyInTheMorning

Fri, Jan 13 2017, 10:15 am

Not listening to the radio= not listening to All Things Considered on NPR? Or not listening to Taylor Swift? Not wearing nail polish = never putting anything on your nails or wearing pale and neutral colors?

In any case, not wearing nail polish and not listening to the radio doesn't really characterize old-school Bais Yaakov, does it? It sounds to me more like machmir Bais Yaakov.

PinkFridge

Fri, Jan 13 2017, 10:41 am

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

I think that All Things Considered and Taylor Swift would be in the same basket. Probably the only kosher radio is FM 107.9 or whatever.

And as far as nail polish, even some more chilled (as in no tights rules Wink

) schools don't allow it in school so that they don't have to start checking hands for which are kosher and which aren't. But out of school, no problem.

However, there are places where schools will make such rules for in and out of school. Maybe this should be clarified too.

I have mixed feelings about tights. I do appreciate how it's a tznius standard, but it's one I personally couldn't live by, so I'm glad it's not a community standard, and wasn't a rule in my daughters' school, so I wouldn't feel hypocritical. (Note: I have one or two duty length skirts, and everything else is longer, nothing shorter.)

Chayalle

Fri, Jan 13 2017, 10:57 am

PinkFridge wrote:

And as far as nail polish, even some more chilled (as in no tights rules Wink

The tights rule is the one rule that I don't enforce with DD out of school. For most other rules, I feel that home and school should be in sync. They have a knee-sock rule in Primary - my DD stopped wearing short socks in primary.

But with the tights rule, I sort of relegated it to uniform status. Just like she doesn't wear her uniform on Sundays, she doesn't have to wear tights on Sundays.

I guess the reason I feel this way is, A - the rule about tights in 3rd grade was not in effect when I signed up as a parent in the school - it came later and B - I don't feel that the school made the rule for out of school. They just want that standard in school, and out of school you are expected to be in charge of your daughter's tznius.

Plenty of students in upper elementary BF wear nail polish out of school, BTW. I remember being a little surprised by it - DD had friends who went for manicures in 7th and 8th grade, and some of them from very yeshivish homes. Old fashioned me puts that off to 11th grade (a point of contention for my now-10th grader.) I wonder what anonymous amother on this thread would say about that.

Chayalle

Fri, Jan 13 2017, 11:06 am

allthingsblue wrote:

I think the poster who accused Ateres Tziporah of not being a Bais Yaakov is confusing "Bais Yaakov" with "in-the-box, conformist, Lakewood yeshivish."

And which school might that be? I think every single school might have some of the issues that poster described. For example, I know kids from two different families in Lakewood's most right wing Litvishe school that are doing some of those things (whether their parents like it or not). Is that school no longer a BY?

PinkFridge

Fri, Jan 13 2017, 11:07 am

Chayalle wrote:

Plenty of students in upper elementary BF wear nail polish out of school, BTW. I remember being a little surprised by it - DD had friends who went for manicures in 7th and 8th grade, and some of them from very yeshivish homes. Old fashioned me puts that off to 11th grade (a point of contention for my now-10th grader.) I wonder what anonymous amother on this thread would say about that.

I've mentioned this on other threads re makeup: the rule of thumb is when did I first wear or do x, or if I was a late bloomer, when did my friends do it? (I remember a 9th grade overnight trip. One girl must have stayed up all night doing makeovers on the class Tongue Out

) If I can hold off till anywhere near there, that's great.

allthingsblue

Fri, Jan 13 2017, 11:27 am

Chayalle wrote:

I didn't mean a specific school.
All I meant is that she apparently thinks Bais Yaakov means doing or not doing certain things, without realizing that in the majority of cities/towns in this country (Baltimore, LA, Detroit, Brooklyn, You name it...) Bais Yaakov doesn't exclude people who wear nail polish.
I, for example, who wear nail polish and occasionally listen to the radio, consider myself Bais Yaakov because I value certain things. Just because I listen to the radio doesn't make me not Bais Yaakov.

Chayalle

Fri, Jan 13 2017, 11:30 am

allthingsblue wrote:

I agree.

My point there was really the same as yours. And that even in a right-wing-in-the-box-school, there are no guarantees.

JoyInTheMorning

Fri, Jan 13 2017, 11:32 am

PinkFridge wrote:

I think that All Things Considered and Taylor Swift would be in the same basket. Probably the only kosher radio is FM 107.9 or whatever.

I truly don't get this. When I think about the things that made me choose an MO lifestyle over a more BY-type lifestyle, this kind of blanket ban pretty much tops the list. I totally understand not wanting your kids to listen to Taylor Swift. I'd prefer that too (although I permit it).

But not to permit your kids to listen to All Things Considered or other programs on NPR! I have that on at home so much of the time! I think it's important for people to be informed. And although there is the occasional thing that comes on the news that is not proper -- between news of DJT hot mic videos and accusations of hanky-panky in Russian hotel rooms, that does sometimes come through -- most of it is totally clean and proper. (So proper that I spent two days wondering what "bad behavior" DJT was videotaped doing in hotel rooms, thinking perhaps he was caught hoarding the little shampoo bottles, until an article linked on Facebook set me straight.)

What is the rationale? When I was in high school, friends who went to Yeshiva Philly or Ner Yisroel weren't allowed to have radios in the dorms, and I kind of understood that it was hard to allow radio for one purpose but not for another. But now, when everyone has a computer? You can listen to pop music on a laptop, or NPR, or a Daf Yomi shiur. What's the point of banning a particular audio equipment? That's why it surprises me to see it put in the same basket.

allthingsblue

Fri, Jan 13 2017, 11:32 am

Chayalle wrote:

I agree.

My point there was really the same as yours. And that even in a right-wing-in-the-box-school, there are no guarantees.

Exactly.

Although I won't send my kids to a school that's known to be ultra right wing in the box, because I wouldn't want my child to be the odd one out for having a mom who wears nail polish and a father who works and doesn't only wear white shirts. It's not fair to the child. I would send to a school where we don't stand out either way- where we're not too right wing or too left wing.

Chayalle

Fri, Jan 13 2017, 11:39 am

allthingsblue wrote:

Exactly.

I always aim for the middle. I happen to love a certain amount of diversity anyway - it's healthy.