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Vaccines Revealed
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mom2six




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 6:37 am
imasoftov wrote:
I'm sure Korean is a typo or auto-correct but I can't figure out for what.

korban
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yksraya




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 10:48 am
I'm a former non vaxer who started to vax lately. The reason I was a non vaxer is bec I have an autistic brother (non vaxed btw) and I was always told and shown articles etc of how vaccines cause autism. Till I got rid of many of my childhood pains and came to the realization that "all" those articles and stories by moms of autistic kids, that blame it on vaxxing, comes from a place of seeking to blame, because that is easier than to accept that this is how hashem wanted it to be. Once I came to this realization, I chose to vax my kids.

I discussed it with my ped, he explained that the main reason why ppl blame the MMR shot, is bec it's given at the same age that most autistic kids get the diagnosis. Also, they actually give the shots for free and don't charge for it, my ped said that when I told him I waited till the kids current ins is affective (they didn't eccept our previous ins so we were self paying).

A kid with autism is "born" with autism, the kid can seem totally fine till a certain age and than suddenly stop doing milestones he/she already mastered. My brother seemed totally normal till 5. If the kid started showing symptoms and was vaxxed, the kid would've started showing that same symptoms that same day if the kid would've not been vaxed bec the kid has a neshama that needs a certain tikkun and had to be this way. And if it's not bashert for a kid to be autistic, the kid will never be autistic.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 10:59 am
Maya wrote:
The headline of a satire article I saw yesterday about anti-vaxxers:

"I didn't vaccinate my kids and the one who lived turned out fine."

http://thehardtimes.net/2017/0.....fine/


Very cute. I won't quibble about cholera. (No vaccine I know of for that.)
I do appreciate wanting to stagger the schedule. I feel that it's a lot of overload for little kids, but B"H no personal negative experience.
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amother
Puce


 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 11:16 am
gamanit wrote:
I bring my children for checkups regularly regardless of whether or not they will be getting any shots that visit. It's important for me to track and discuss their growth and development with a qualified physician. I also use those visits to discuss any concerns I have about their health and get an expert opinion.


Don't you know? Non vaxxers are experts themselves. They can look anything up on the internet and get the answers for themselves. Why bother consulting with an actual medical prefossional?
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 11:16 am
amother wrote:
Although I have been giving my children vaccines with the aproval of my pediatrician - I figured I would try to see the other side. I opened up and this video and I was totally amazed! The first interviewer is Andrew Wakefield! 😮 Just google his name - anyone educated in the mental health/education/therapy fields knows clearly how unsubstantiated his theory was. If you look at the DSM-6 and you are familliar with autistic tendencies used to diagnose autism - it is very clear that it does not 1st occur at 12-18 months! As a professional working in this field, we look at eye contact and affect of infants!! Parents who are not aware of childhood developmental milestones may not realize that there is something different about their child till they are closer to 12-18 months (the age the MMR is given), and may blame it all on the MMR but they may just be in denial. Yes, there is a tiny percentage of children who are highly sensitive and may have reactions such as seizures etc. But they do not cause Autism!!! His theory makes no sense and has never been proven!!
I'm sorry - but if this is who they chose to start their series with - they lost me! I couldn't get myself to watch the rest of the video!


I don't know why you are amother for such an excellent post.

My 31-year-old brother is on the autism spectrum (high functioning, used to be diagnosed as Aspergers with PDD, but the DSM has changed and I have no idea what his current diagnosis is). My mother A"H cried in the hospital and told my father there is something wrong - different - with the baby. He was her 9th child, and he was different than the others. Everyone pooh-pooh'd her and said he was gorgeous (he was! blonde curls and blue eyes) and she should just relax, he's fine....time bore out the truth of her feelings as his more pronounced symptoms emerged.

At that time in my mother's life, she was a big believer in delayed vaccines. I had my first shots at age 2. My brother had symptoms of autism way before he was ever vaccinated.

I get so hurt by posters who try to link autism to vaccines. It is so invalidating. Stop with the lies. My mother A"H also felt very let down and lied-to, and when Wakefield's deception was exposed, she was livid. My youngest siblings, born after my brother, were vaxed on schedule.
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LittleDucky




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 11:19 am
Just a note as I hear this often "the rate of autism is rising".
This is kind of a false statement. It's not that more kids are getting the same disease but the definition has been changed and expanded, partly due to a push by autism advocates. (Who want higher rates for more government funding....)
The new DSM has radically changed what is defined as autism! So technically, in the years during the switchover from DSM IV-TR to DSM V, more kids were diagnosed than 10 years ago. But when you expand the definitions and combine diagnoses (Aspergers doesn't exist anymore and is combined into Autism) of course there will be more who fit it! That's without taking into account better awareness, training of professionals and more kids get evaluated.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 11:21 am
yksraya wrote:
I'm a former non vaxer who started to vax lately. The reason I was a non vaxer is bec I have an autistic brother (non vaxed btw) and I was always told and shown articles etc of how vaccines cause autism. Till I got rid of many of my childhood pains and came to the realization that "all" those articles and stories by moms of autistic kids, that blame it on vaxxing, comes from a place of seeking to blame, because that is easier than to accept that this is how hashem wanted it to be. Once I came to this realization, I chose to vax my kids.

I discussed it with my ped, he explained that the main reason why ppl blame the MMR shot, is bec it's given at the same age that most autistic kids get the diagnosis. Also, they actually give the shots for free and don't charge for it, my ped said that when I told him I waited till the kids current ins is affective (they didn't eccept our previous ins so we were self paying).

A kid with autism is "born" with autism, the kid can seem totally fine till a certain age and than suddenly stop doing milestones he/she already mastered. My brother seemed totally normal till 5. If the kid started showing symptoms and was vaxxed, the kid would've started showing that same symptoms that same day if the kid would've not been vaxed bec the kid has a neshama that needs a certain tikkun and had to be this way. And if it's not bashert for a kid to be autistic, the kid will never be autistic.


This. My mother A"H did feel something was different from the start. But no one else saw it. I remember him being the most adorable baby, and he seemed to be just like everyone else. It was only later that we saw the developmental issues associated with autism. Also, my brother is a GENIUS in certain areas (numbers, memory-related stuff) so it was harder to get a diagnosis. A kid getting 100% on his Gemarah tests but acts weird socially, facial expressions different, eye-contact issues, etc....

I agree with your post about blaming and non-acceptance. Well said.
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amother
Amethyst


 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 1:36 pm
People who live in NA or Europe that are anti-vax are really beyond the pale. I lived with my parents in a developing country when I was young. The kind with no national health care, no stable tax base, and rampant corruption among civil servants because of how little they were paid. If you wanted an ambulance, you had to bribe the driver to drive quickly to the hospital. If you wanted medical care, you had to pay out of pocket. If you got into a car accident, you had to bribe the police men to come and take your statement. If your road got a pothole, you either bribed the construction workers to fix it, or better yet, filled it with gravel yourself so you didn't destroy your car every day. If your child was disabled, you kept them at home and family members took care of them - no interventions, no right to schooling, no adaptations.

When I got back to NA, I couldn't stand how people were constantly complaining about how much they paid in taxes, how unfair it was that they had to give the government money for "nothing." They were so blind to the privileges they had in a system with a mostly functional infrastructure. There are many many broken things in our governmental systems, of course, but you can't appreciate what you have if you've never had to live without it. But of course, most people don't even TRY to imagine what their world would be like without roads, hospitals, police men, and ambulances.

The same goes for the anti-vax movement. It's paranoia, lack of critical thinking skills, and massive blindness to what they already have. The country I grew up in also had rampant vaccine preventable disease. Your grandmothers and grandfathers lost multiple family members and friends to vaccine-preventable disease. NO ONE who understands what the world looks like without vaccines is in any way willing to go back to that time.
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petiteruchy




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 1:38 pm
lubaussie wrote:


this bears repeating.


the literal worst thing the anti-vax people can come up with is "oh no! autism!"
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petiteruchy




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 1:45 pm
ange wrote:
Then let's drink to ALL the change. Epidemic levels of allergies, autism, neuropsychological delays, autoimmune disease, childhood cancers.... so much to celebrate!


You know what else has been rising along with vaccine rates? Pollution. I mean, the bee die-outs are scary enough, but why are vaccines a more likely cause than the fact that air, ground and water pollution levels have been sky-rocketing in the last few decades? We already know that breast cancer rates are higher in populations nearer freeways and other roads.

Why can't the anti-vax people choose that as their conspiracy du jour? They might actually do some good then, instead of causing new measles outbreaks.
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dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 1:56 pm
petiteruchy wrote:
You know what else has been rising along with vaccine rates? Pollution. I mean, the bee die-outs are scary enough, but why are vaccines a more likely cause than the fact that air, ground and water pollution levels have been sky-rocketing in the last few decades? We already know that breast cancer rates are higher in populations nearer freeways and other roads.

Why can't the anti-vax people choose that as their conspiracy du jour? They might actually do some good then, instead of causing new measles outbreaks.


Actually pollution levels are going down because of efforts by the EPA to improve vehicle emissions, as well
As reduced use of coal and use of cleaner gases. In fact the hole in the ozone is almost gone. Go science. I'm totally pro vaccines through of course.
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LittleDucky




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 2:06 pm
ange wrote:
Then let's drink to ALL the change. Epidemic levels of allergies, autism, neuropsychological delays, autoimmune disease, childhood cancers.... so much to celebrate!


We can now test for autoimmune conditions, cancers etc. before kids were just "sickly" or had a "poor constitution".

Asthma has been correlated to being too clean- the Hygiene Theory.
Neuropsychology was practically unheard of 100 years ago. Kids were just "dumb" or "[crazy]". "Delayed" was not used as a term. Many kids were sent to institutions or ended up begging in the street, left to die and many other sad scenarios.

But it's much easier to blame some vast conspiracy than reading peer reviewed studies and history.
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petiteruchy




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 2:10 pm
amother wrote:
Actually pollution levels are going down because of efforts by the EPA to improve vehicle emissions, as well
As reduced use of coal and use of cleaner gases. In fact the hole in the ozone is almost gone. Go science. I'm totally pro vaccines through of course.


In the US, yes. although it took us a while to figure out what was happening to the ozone so it's not outside the realm of possibility that we don't understand some connections yet. We certainly don't exactly know what's happening to the bees.

Around the world though, pollution and contamination levels are rising.
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 2:34 pm
petiteruchy wrote:
In the US, yes. although it took us a while to figure out what was happening to the ozone so it's not outside the realm of possibility that we don't understand some connections yet. We certainly don't exactly know what's happening to the bees.

Around the world though, pollution and contamination levels are rising.


In any case, we would need to take into account epigenetic changes wrought by pollution on the generation prior to the one that saw environmental improvement. The rates of disease might take a while to drop, the positive results might not be so instantaneous. Good point overall about the possible correlation between pollution and illness.
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iyar




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 2:40 pm
[quote="amother"]People who live in NA or Europe that are anti-vax are really beyond the pale. I lived with my parents in a developing country when I was young. The kind with no national health care, no stable tax base, and rampant corruption among civil servants because of how little they were paid. If you wanted an ambulance, you had to bribe the driver to drive quickly to the hospital. If you wanted medical care, you had to pay out of pocket. If you got into a car accident, you had to bribe the police men to come and take your statement. If your road got a pothole, you either bribed the construction workers to fix it, or better yet, filled it with gravel yourself so you didn't destroy your car every day. If your child was disabled, you kept them at home and family members took care of them - no interventions, no right to schooling, no adaptations.

When I got back to NA, I couldn't stand how people were constantly complaining about how much they paid in taxes, how unfair it was that they had to give the government money for "nothing." They were so blind to the privileges they had in a system with a mostly functional infrastructure. There are many many broken things in our governmental systems, of course, but you can't appreciate what you have if you've never had to live without it. But of course, most people don't even TRY to imagine what their world would be like without roads, hospitals, police men, and ambulances.

The same goes for the anti-vax movement. It's paranoia, lack of critical thinking skills, and massive blindness to what they already have. The country I grew up in also had rampant vaccine preventable disease. Your grandmothers and grandfathers lost multiple family members and friends to vaccine-preventable disease. NO ONE who understands what the world looks like without vaccines is in any way willing to go back to that time.[/quote]

Thank you amother Amethyst for writing that.
I think your message needs to be read by all of us at least two times, so I quoted it.
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 2:44 pm
goldrose wrote:
She likely titled it "vaccines revealed" because that is the name of the series of videos.
And "a video about the problems of vaccinating" would similarly be mocked by the pro vaxxers on this site who seem to believe that vaccines are flawlessly safe.


I hope you don't view everything in this simplistic way. The truth is much more nuanced.

Most people agree that vaccines are hard on the body, causing soreness, fevers, and other reactions. Most people are aware that vaccines can cause severe reactions in a tiny percentage of the population.

But so can ibuprofen and anesthesia and for some people even latex gloves. That doesn't mean these are automatically off limits to everyone. We weigh and measure the pros and cons of each medicine and decide. There is currently only a single disproven study linking vaccines to autism, plus anecdotes by grieving parents desperate to blame something, anything, for their children's problems. Vaccines remain by far the most cost-effective, socially responsible, ethical, and medically safe health initiative.

But to say that pro-vaxxers believe in the infallibility of medical wisdom or the perfection of the current treatments reveals a lot about the thinking skills of non-vaxxers.
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amother
Jade


 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2017, 4:14 pm
Apparently the companies producing vaccines do not agree with your math. They went to Congress in 1986 saying they could not cover the damage. It was then that Congress ruled that vaccines are unavoidably unsafe and a tax was imposed on the public-who were simultaneously mandated to receive those same vaccines. Free of liability, the drug companies increased the schedule to over 60 doses starting the day of birth.
Iyar, I'm glad we live in a free country, where we have many privileges. Let's make sure that we never have a system of tyranny, including medical tyranny where opening a discussion about drugs being injected into our children is "conspiracy ". Let's make sure government and industry don't become too enmeshed where there are swinging doors between cdc and merck. Let's use our freedoms to push for a double blind study -vaccinated vs unvaccinated, push for safe vaccines and hold pharmaceutical companies accountable for products which are mandated on our children.
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amother
Wine


 

Post Sat, Jan 14 2017, 6:34 pm
amother wrote:
Apparently the companies producing vaccines do not agree with your math. They went to Congress in 1986 saying they could not cover the damage. It was then that Congress ruled that vaccines are unavoidably unsafe and a tax was imposed on the public-who were simultaneously mandated to receive those same vaccines. Free of liability, the drug companies increased the schedule to over 60 doses starting the day of birth.
Iyar, I'm glad we live in a free country, where we have many privileges. Let's make sure that we never have a system of tyranny, including medical tyranny where opening a discussion about drugs being injected into our children is "conspiracy ". Let's make sure government and industry don't become too enmeshed where there are swinging doors between cdc and merck. Let's use our freedoms to push for a double blind study -vaccinated vs unvaccinated, push for safe vaccines and hold pharmaceutical companies accountable for products which are mandated on our children.


Let's have some sources for your claim and not a link to Wakefield, a known liars, movie.

Do you have any idea how well regulated the pharmaceutical industry is?
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cnc




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 14 2017, 6:59 pm
yksraya wrote:
I'm a former non vaxer who started to vax lately. The reason I was a non vaxer is bec I have an autistic brother (non vaxed btw) and I was always told and shown articles etc of how vaccines cause autism. Till I got rid of many of my childhood pains and came to the realization that "all" those articles and stories by moms of autistic kids, that blame it on vaxxing, comes from a place of seeking to blame, because that is easier than to accept that this is how hashem wanted it to be. Once I came to this realization, I chose to vax my kids.

I discussed it with my ped, he explained that the main reason why ppl blame the MMR shot, is bec it's given at the same age that most autistic kids get the diagnosis. Also, they actually give the shots for free and don't charge for it, my ped said that when I told him I waited till the kids current ins is affective (they didn't eccept our previous ins so we were self paying).

A kid with autism is "born" with autism, the kid can seem totally fine till a certain age and than suddenly stop doing milestones he/she already mastered. My brother seemed totally normal till 5. If the kid started showing symptoms and was vaxxed, the kid would've started showing that same symptoms that same day if the kid would've not been vaxed bec the kid has a neshama that needs a certain tikkun and had to be this way. And if it's not bashert for a kid to be autistic, the kid will never be autistic.


I have a neighbor with a few children that are all vaccinated . One of them has processing disorders and other issues and she always blames it on the vaccines. I never understood why (and actually asked her a few times) especially considering that she has other vaccinated children that are perfectly fine. Life is much simpler when we have something specific to blame our problems on. It gives us a certain sense of relief and closure and that is why I believe people like to blame something (In this case vaccinations ) on their problems.
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amother
Apricot


 

Post Sat, Jan 14 2017, 7:22 pm
Maybe wrote:
Sorry but it sounds like you are getting paid to write that stuff,

According to you (1)SIDS just happens the same time as 2 4 6 moths vax (2)Autism just happens at time of MMR (3)miscarige just happens after flu-shot

You would make a good criminal lawyer, victim just happend to die after he was shot.

CDC whistblower admits that vaccine do cause autism

Are you saying that there were no miscarriages before the flu shot was invented?
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