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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Our Challenging Children (gifted, ADHD, sensitive, defiant)
Homework with challenging child.
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smilealot




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 10:13 am
Does ur challenging child get homework?
What do u do when he refuses to do it.
Homework with him is torture for me.
Charts, bribes, tried those.
Now just not doing it coz both of us are getting frustrated.
Any tips?
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 10:44 am
How old is the child?

I'd suggest stepping back for some time. It sounds and feels all wrong but I've had experience with this as a child, parent, tutor, teacher, and friend.

You don't totally ignore the homework but you must remove ALL drama and emotion from it before you can even start any other attempt to repair the situation. You'll still set up a time for homework and let him know it needs to be done, but no more nagging, bribing, etc. Let it be between him and the teacher. You need your home to be a home first, not a battleground. It may help to get someone else to do homework with him so it doesn't turn into a tension between you. You need to be the mom, someone else can be the homework police. High school kids can do well for this, hopefully you can find someone as a chessed, if not they don't ask too much pay - you don't need tutoring, just a new face that can be identified as homework time. You can even supply charts and bribes to the helper, different ones than you've used in the past so DS doesn't know it's from you. Everything is different when it doesn't come from mom. Save some preferred activity for after homework.

What's the teacher like, and how's his relationship with the teacher? Maybe the teacher can do more encouragement on the school end so it's not on you as much.
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animeme




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 10:52 am
Definitely need the age of the child. When ds was younger, regular charts didn't work, but he loved trains, so we made a picture where the train traveled to the Land of Math, the Land of Chumash, etc. He got a small prize after each land (something like a cookie) and a larger prize at the end (computer time). He moved an actual train.

That being said, you need to work with the teachers. We have had teachers modify hw for our kids, taking down math to half the problems and spelling lessons to five words. Many teachers now have call-in lines for kriah that can be much more effective than a parent sitting and listening. Also, if your child would be more motivated by a computer, you can talk to the teacher about doing an on line math game in place of regular math hw and drills.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 10:56 am
seeker wrote:
How old is the child?

I'd suggest stepping back for some time. It sounds and feels all wrong but I've had experience with this as a child, parent, tutor, teacher, and friend.

You don't totally ignore the homework but you must remove ALL drama and emotion from it before you can even start any other attempt to repair the situation. You'll still set up a time for homework and let him know it needs to be done, but no more nagging, bribing, etc. Let it be between him and the teacher. You need your home to be a home first, not a battleground. It may help to get someone else to do homework with him so it doesn't turn into a tension between you. You need to be the mom, someone else can be the homework police. High school kids can do well for this, hopefully you can find someone as a chessed, if not they don't ask too much pay - you don't need tutoring, just a new face that can be identified as homework time. You can even supply charts and bribes to the helper, different ones than you've used in the past so DS doesn't know it's from you. Everything is different when it doesn't come from mom. Save some preferred activity for after homework.

What's the teacher like, and how's his relationship with the teacher? Maybe the teacher can do more encouragement on the school end so it's not on you as much.


The approach that it is between the child and teacher is not fair to the teacher nor the child. Without home support, the teacher can't teach no matter how gifted. If a child is challenging at home one-on-one then he is challenging in school in a classroom. When is this child supposed to learn?

Perhaps the approach of getting someone else to do homework will work, but to place it back on the teacher is counterproductive.
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smilealot




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 11:03 am
DS is 8.
Doesnt get on well with teacher at all.
Teacher does not understand DS at all and anything I suggest she takes no notice of. Sad
I do get HS girls in to do it with him but he messes them all around. I'm wondering if I should just not bother, but then what am I teaching him? If something is too hard for us or if we can't be bothered then make a fuss and mum will give in to u??
The work isn't too hard.
That's not the problem.
He just can't focus and doesn't like working hard.
I feel like what's the point of stressing him? Teacher never marks it anyways.
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 11:04 am
Squishy wrote:
The approach that it is between the child and teacher is not fair to the teacher nor the child. Without home support, the teacher can't teach no matter how gifted. If a child is challenging at home one-on-one then he is challenging in school in a classroom. When is this child supposed to learn?

Perhaps the approach of getting someone else to do homework will work, but to place it back on the teacher is counterproductive.

The point is that you cannot force a child to learn. You can teach but the learning is up to him. You cannot ruin your home life and you relationship with your child over homework. It's not effective and it's counterproductive.
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smilealot




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 11:08 am
Thanx. That's what I wanted to hear.
But the question is if I should just leave it or pressure and to what degree should I pressure?
Should I just leave it for him to want to do it?
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 11:27 am
Squishy wrote:
The approach that it is between the child and teacher is not fair to the teacher nor the child. Without home support, the teacher can't teach no matter how gifted. If a child is challenging at home one-on-one then he is challenging in school in a classroom. When is this child supposed to learn?

Perhaps the approach of getting someone else to do homework will work, but to place it back on the teacher is counterproductive.

I guess we have different opinions on what home support means. I think home support means that the parents provide space, time, and materials for the child to do their homework, and make themselves available to help as needed, including listening to read-alouds and testing them on spelling words and that kind of thing. But motivating the children to come to school with homework completed is definitely appropriate for the teacher to do, and it's the most natural consequence because the point of homework is to reinforce the schoolwork. In the older grades this usually takes the form of docking report card points for missing homework; in younger grades usually more along the lines of a sticker chart, and middle grades some kind of combination or something in between.
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 11:40 am
Luvme wrote:
DS is 8.
Doesnt get on well with teacher at all.
Teacher does not understand DS at all and anything I suggest she takes no notice of. Sad
I do get HS girls in to do it with him but he messes them all around. I'm wondering if I should just not bother, but then what am I teaching him? If something is too hard for us or if we can't be bothered then make a fuss and mum will give in to u??
The work isn't too hard.
That's not the problem.
He just can't focus and doesn't like working hard.

I feel like what's the point of stressing him? Teacher never marks it anyways.


My advice is based on the bolded info.

1) set a specific time to do homework with a time limit. For example, at 6 p.m. you do homework, no matter what.

2) set time limits for how long he does homework. For example you set a timer for ten minutes to finish math homework and when ten minutes are up, he's done with math, whether he did one problem or all of them. He can choose to continue beyond this time limit but he doesn't have to. But he can't spend those ten minutes whining or daydreaming. Those ten minutes are for working or they don't count. He has to do at least some of the homework but not all of it.

3) set up a comfortable environment beforehand for doing homework in. He can snack while he does homework, he can drink, he can listen to music or an audiobook.

4) if possible, have him do some homework in advance so that you can accrue some "off days" with no homework.

You ask what's the point. Setting up good work habits now is VERY important. He needs to acquire the skill of being able to sit still and focus on something for a little while until he completes a task. It isn't the homework itself that's important. It's practicing self-discipline and focus, two things that you KNOW he has trouble with. Sure it's easier to ignore it now. But if you do, it will be so much harder for him to correct it later.
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 11:46 am
seeker wrote:
I guess we have different opinions on what home support means. I think home support means that the parents provide space, time, and materials for the child to do their homework, and make themselves available to help as needed, including listening to read-alouds and testing them on spelling words and that kind of thing. But motivating the children to come to school with homework completed is definitely appropriate for the teacher to do

THIS.
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smilealot




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 1:31 pm
gp2.0 wrote:
My advice is based on the bolded info.

1) set a specific time to do homework with a time limit. For example, at 6 p.m. you do homework, no matter what.

2) set time limits for how long he does homework. For example you set a timer for ten minutes to finish math homework and when ten minutes are up, he's done with math, whether he did one problem or all of them. He can choose to continue beyond this time limit but he doesn't have to. But he can't spend those ten minutes whining or daydreaming. Those ten minutes are for working or they don't count. He has to do at least some of the homework but not all of it.

3) set up a comfortable environment beforehand for doing homework in. He can snack while he does homework, he can drink, he can listen to music or an audiobook.

4) if possible, have him do some homework in advance so that you can accrue some "off days" with no homework.

You ask what's the point. Setting up good work habits now is VERY important. He needs to acquire the skill of being able to sit still and focus on something for a little while until he completes a task. It isn't the homework itself that's important. It's practicing self-discipline and focus, two things that you KNOW he has trouble with. Sure it's easier to ignore it now. But if you do, it will be so much harder for him to correct it later.

Thanx for ur ideas.
I like number one. I think I'd not do number 4 and rather do it daily at 6 as part of routine.
I do time him but for twenty mins. Maybe that's too long and I should cut it down.
Ten mins without daydreaming is impossible for him. Someone needs to sit next to him and keep on pushing him. He writes one word and then his head is everywhere.
Saying that, I did manage to get him to write 3 sentences this evening.
Maybe I should just leave him to it with everything ready and go out the room with a timer on. Good idea. He likes timers as he can see it moving... ☺️
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amother
Indigo


 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 6:24 pm
I recently put this in front of an older child to help him study. I use it for my younger kids too, in helping them to keep track of time.

https://www.amazon.com/Time-Ti.....clock

Perhaps you need to start with shorter time increments - 5 minutes, and then he can have a small edible reward, and then another 5 minutes - all visible by the timer.
I have taught my 11 year old to "sprint", setting 10 minute sprints to help him push through a boring work load, with small "prizes" in between (he is older, so it is symbolic - a chocolate chip, or a pretzel).

I know that food prizes are debatable, but this works for us.
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amother
Papaya


 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 7:14 pm
Homework was absolutely unbearable with one of my kids. All of it. Part of the problem was that my child needed extra help with one subject, and would refuse to take help from me. I did get help for my kid (I live in ny and my child was eligible for p3). I still do hw with my kid, but since getting the extra help at school, my child is much more compliant during hw time. It took a lot of anxiety away. It feels like I am doing hw with a different child.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 7:26 pm
We set the timer for 3 minutes, with a point given for every 3 minutes spent on task and not complaining.

If he drifts or whines, the timer stops till he is working again, no other consequence.

Points can be spent on doing extra of things he likes, or other rewards.

Limit of 20 minutes on HW.

It took years of this before I would leave him to it on his own. And I still try to sit with him most days.

My role is to scribe if his hand gets too tired, and to be the cheerleader. "Wow, look how beautifully and quickly you wrote that sentence! Way to go!" "I love how creative that was!" "You're being so careful at checking those math problems." "Two pesukim done already? You're a superstar!" "Now you're almost done, already. Hurray!"
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 8:32 pm
seeker wrote:
I guess we have different opinions on what home support means. I think home support means that the parents provide space, time, and materials for the child to do their homework, and make themselves available to help as needed, including listening to read-alouds and testing them on spelling words and that kind of thing. But motivating the children to come to school with homework completed is definitely appropriate for the teacher to do, and it's the most natural consequence because the point of homework is to reinforce the schoolwork. In the older grades this usually takes the form of docking report card points for missing homework; in younger grades usually more along the lines of a sticker chart, and middle grades some kind of combination or something in between.


In this case, home support would be getting an evaluation to figure out why her son can't focus and then taking homework recommendations from a specialist. This is too tough to throw back on a regular classroom teacher without guidance.

Any motivation program of docking this kid's grade or docking him stickers is unfair if his underlying problem is not addressed.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 8:35 pm
We don't even know that he has an underlying problem, and offering stickers for completed homework is non-invasive and non-punitive and very common and appropriate. Nobody said anything about throwing anything on classroom teachers; I am the one who first mentioned the teachers and I believe what I said was that if they are approachable then maybe they can provide additional encouragement. Not that I need to defend my opinion here but I really don't understand why this seems to have caused such offense.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 9:25 pm
seeker wrote:
We don't even know that he has an underlying problem, and offering stickers for completed homework is non-invasive and non-punitive and very common and appropriate. Nobody said anything about throwing anything on classroom teachers; I am the one who first mentioned the teachers and I believe what I said was that if they are approachable then maybe they can provide additional encouragement. Not that I need to defend my opinion here but I really don't understand why this seems to have caused such offense.


Sorry. Any frustration that may have come through is not with you or OP. It is real life exasperation of parents not supporting education. The tone gets lost sometimes in these threads. You didn't cause offense in the slightest.

I only suggested the evaluation because OP said he can't focus and this is in the challenging thread forum. I felt the problem was beyond stickers and probably continues in the classroom.

Maybe a combo motivational chart would work. The parent marks off talks on the chart, and the teacher has to check off the item or task .
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 10:12 pm
Ah, yes. All good, don't worry Smile
Yes, the child may have focusing issues that OP seems aware of so hopefully she is on top of getting help. Those are the kids who need the most motivation, though. Preferably the positive kind but occasionally a kick in the pants is also called for to keep them accountable. But only if the teacher isn't mean about it, which is why I first asked how the teacher is. Unfortunately OP seems to feel that the teacher will be counterproductive in this case, which is sad.
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 11:32 pm
Luvme wrote:
Does ur challenging child get homework?
What do u do when he refuses to do it.
Homework with him is torture for me.
Charts, bribes, tried those.
Now just not doing it coz both of us are getting frustrated.
Any tips?


I told the school that I'm not willing to become a policeman about homework. I cannot help with homework and I cannot enforce it. In the big picture of life, our relationship with our child and the tone in the home is way more important than homework. I dont allow the school to bully me into bullying my child. They try, though. They shame me and tell me, 'your child is so capable, if only she'd study' and I say, 'for all the hours you have her, she shouldn't need to do more school work at home.'
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smilealot




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 16 2017, 1:44 am
Re having him evaluated. Yes I am trying to.
Possibly aspergers.
Already know that he has SPD and OCD and a delay in processing.
Poor kid. School is awful for him. He's constantly in trouble with the teacher.
I have suggested to her some things that I really think would be helpful eg just sending notes home if he has a good day etc but she takes no notice of my suggestions.
She gives rewards for doing hw but DS is not motivated by that.
DS gets loads of positive feedback, praise, rewards etc from me but he needs from more ppl too.
He wakes up saying I'm not interested in getting dressed coz I HATE school!
I wish I could make things easier for him.
😧 πŸ˜“ 😧 😨 😭 😡 πŸ˜“ 😧
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