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Child playing with food = inadequate guardianship?
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 6:40 pm
Squishy wrote:
I am looking for a way for her to explain it in family court. As is being guessed, it is a crazy future ex threatening to take away the kids and her home. Ironically, the railing was fine when he lived there because he installed it.

She has done everything she can think of. She installed the locks. I can't even imagine the stress she is under.


Well I'm sure that she will talk about the remediation of the problem (locks on doors, fridge etc). Help her become confident in expressing herself while stressed and discussing her plan B for the next time.

Family court Judges do realize that in adversarial divorces spouses can exaggerate and fling dirt. I mean really, is this man capable of taking care of an infant and a toddler on his own? Some of us wouldn't wish that on our worst enemies.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 6:48 pm
Squishy wrote:
it is a crazy future ex threatening to take away the kids and her home. Ironically, the railing was fine when he lived there because he installed it.


HE installed the railing, and HE'S complaining about it being unsafe? shock

I just found the perfect definition of chutzpah. Mad

I am so, so sorry for your friend.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 7:22 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
HE installed the railing, and HE'S complaining about it being unsafe? shock

I just found the perfect definition of chutzpah. Mad

I am so, so sorry for your friend.


Yes, and the agency agreed with him. Now he is taking it to court saying he has proof that my friend's napping put the kids in imminent danger.
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esuss




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 7:29 pm
Especially during a family court case your friend has to go the extra mile in taking care of the kids. While it may be ok for a tired mom to catnap while 3 year old is locked in same room or preoccupied. It is not ok to do so at this time of her custody. Can she send her older child to a playgroup and nap during that time while her infant is napping? Or she can ask a neighbors child to come in for an hour a day to watch her kids so she can rest? My seventh grade daughter has such a job.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 7:40 pm
esuss wrote:
Especially during a family court case your friend has to go the extra mile in taking care of the kids. While it may be ok for a tired mom to catnap while 3 year old is locked in same room or preoccupied. It is not ok to do so at this time of her custody. Can she send her older child to a playgroup and nap during that time while her infant is napping? Or she can ask a neighbors child to come in for an hour a day to watch her kids so she can rest? My seventh grade daughter has such a job.


Going forward it is easy to fix. She has friends, and we are helping.

She is stuck trying to explain away this bad report. I was hoping this was food thing was common. I know the lower railing is standard in NY. I see that napping isn't. I had a night nurse, so I wasn't so sleep deprived.

I can't believe that no one naps during the day except is the child is secured. LOL there are two year olds playing outside unattended, babies left unattended while the parents go to simchas, babies left in strollers in front of stores unattended, kids not buckled in, and she is in trouble for napping worry the kid in the house.
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 7:53 pm
Wow, I feel so bad for your friend.

I have a friend who ended up losing her kids due to a vindictive ex. The worst part is that the kids live with his friends rather than with him.

She needs to get the best most expensive divorce lawyer.
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amother
Emerald


 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 7:56 pm
Squishy wrote:

I can't believe that no one naps during the day except is the child is secured. LOL there are two year olds playing outside unattended, babies left unattended while the parents go to simchas, babies left in strollers in front of stores unattended, kids not buckled in, and she is in trouble for napping worry the kid in the house.


All of those things are neglect and if I saw them I would probably report. Especially if it became a pattern.
The food and mess is normal when the mother is around and leaves for a 30 second bathroom break, or is sweeping the dining room. The nap is not normal when the child cannot be completely safe without her. I have never napped while my kids were around, but I have went to my room for a few minutes to relax, being fully awake and listening for any issues. My house is very child proofed, but a child can make danger out of cotton swabs.
Your friend needs extra hands, but she does not sound like a bad mother. She does need to know to ask for help when she needs it, instead of leaving her kids unattended.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 8:49 pm
I don't mean to derail the topic at hand, but all of you saying that you must never nap when you have toddlers - what do you do at night? Do you sleep with one eye open? My kids always wake up before me and always have. You childproof your home as well as possible, keep a baby monitor on, and GO TO SLEEP. And then sometimes the kids wake up and make mayhem and that's when you know G-d is watching.

Why is a nap different than sleep?

I don't know much about custody battles (the only one I got close to was lost to an awful ex Sad so no useful advice there) but maybe instead of defending her past actions (since the SW seems to have already decided they were bad) her lawyer can focus on how she's improving for the future. Enroll her in weekly social work/parenting sessions and bring proof of her attendance, have strong locks on the balcony door and bring receipt from contractor for installation, etc. Maybe keeping status quo temporarily and getting re-evaluated is something they could ask for more easily than actually winning the case for good. Again, I don't know how these things work but that's what my un-lawyerly logic says.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 8:53 pm
I personally think it's all baloney, but that means nothing.

I agree with ectomorph. She needs to invest in a really good lawyer who will make this go away.

Is there a gemach to help her do that, if she needs?
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 9:13 pm
Squishy wrote:
Going forward it is easy to fix. She has friends, and we are helping.

She is stuck trying to explain away this bad report. I was hoping this was food thing was common. I know the lower railing is standard in NY. I see that napping isn't. I had a night nurse, so I wasn't so sleep deprived.

I can't believe that no one naps during the day except is the child is secured. LOL there are two year olds playing outside unattended, babies left unattended while the parents go to simchas, babies left in strollers in front of stores unattended, kids not buckled in, and she is in trouble for napping worry the kid in the house.


Parents who let their toddlers play outside unattended are neglectful and should be reported. That is not normal parenting. Napping while your toddlers are up and around the house is also neglectful, though not quite as bed. The mess with the mustard or whatever is completely besides the point. It is totally normal for kids to make messes out of all sorts of things.
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 10:22 pm
You people never take a shabbos nap? I live in a small Apartment fully childproof and yes have plenty times dozed off on the couch while my 3 & 4 yr old played nicely near me. I guess it has to do with child's personality and if they typically do lots of trouble...
Also I'm an extremely light sleeper.
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amother
Lemon


 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 10:57 pm
The irony here is that the OP is usually the quickest to yell "negligence" and "lack of proper supervision" for the most ridiculous things that are 100% ok, and yet now that a parent is sleeping soundly and allowing a toddler to cruise the house completely unsupervised, suddenly you think it's totally fine because she's a friend? Wow!
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amother
Violet


 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 10:59 pm
amother wrote:
You people never take a shabbos nap? I live in a small Apartment fully childproof and yes have plenty times dozed off on the couch while my 3 & 4 yr old played nicely near me. I guess it has to do with child's personality and if they typically do lots of trouble...
Also I'm an extremely light sleeper.
NO! My dh and I take turns watching the kids while the other one naps.

I'm shocked at how many posters think it's ok to be sleeping in the room and letting kids out in the house themselves! So many things can happen and if you're sleeping, you're not alert to listen out for sounds of danger or trouble.

A kid can choke, can need help in the bathroom, can hit the baby, can pull a chair and climb onto a kitchen counter or table. So many things that even when I'm awake but working in a different room, I go to check every few minutes because too quiet is a problem. My kids have done crazy things while I'm up and around. I simply can't fathom how it's ok to sleep while you are responsible for children who are awake!

And when it comes to night sleep, my toddler is in the crib and can't get out alone. As soon as I hear sounds of kids awake, I know it's good morning time. In fact, the ony time I ever sleep late is shabbs when Dh wakes up to supervise them.
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LiLIsraeli




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 11:01 pm
Squishy wrote:
Going forward it is easy to fix. She has friends, and we are helping.

She is stuck trying to explain away this bad report. I was hoping this was food thing was common. I know the lower railing is standard in NY. I see that napping isn't. I had a night nurse, so I wasn't so sleep deprived.

I can't believe that no one naps during the day except is the child is secured. LOL there are two year olds playing outside unattended, babies left unattended while the parents go to simchas, babies left in strollers in front of stores unattended, kids not buckled in, and she is in trouble for napping worry the kid in the house.


None of that is okay. All the things you listed are in fact neglect and are reportable.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 11:01 pm
imasinger wrote:
I personally think it's all baloney, but that means nothing.

I agree with ectomorph. She needs to invest in a really good lawyer who will make this go away.

Is there a gemach to help her do that, if she needs?


This was my thought about the gemach. Is there an organization to help fight for custody for a mother?
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2017, 11:41 pm
To all those yelping in judgment, I give you a bracha that you should never know from single mothering. Because you obviously don't.

I'm not talking to people who expressed respectful concern about the family's safety. I'm talking about the "what OMG how could you even think of sleeping while you're responsible for little kids?!!!!!" The answer is because when you're the only one responsible for these little kids 24 hours a day for many days in a row, then you have very little choice. It sounds like the mother here has more than one small child, if I'm understanding correctly, and they are very young. I had two young children and even though I was not a single mother I remember many nights when they would wake in middle of the night not at the same time and then nap during the day not at the same time, no matter how hard I tried to get them on some schedule, leaving them well-rested and me in a dysfunctional zombie state. Let's also assume that even if/though the kids are in day care, the mother is probably spending those hours working because how many divorcees (whose exes are launching a nasty custody battle at the same time) have all their needs provided for them?

I don't know what else there is to this story, I'm pretty sure none of us here do, and I'm not going to say whether OP or her friend are right or wrong or somewhere in between, and I support the suggestions of improved childproofing and increased use of community and/or social resources. But what I won't do is castigate the whole idea of mothers resting on duty. It may not be ideal but it happens. We don't even know if the child was awake when the mother began her nap. We don't know if the mother's nap was in a closed room with the child. We don't even know if the mother's nap was intentional. All we're told is that the child got into a mess while the mother was asleep, which indicates that there may have been an unsafe condition at the time, but we don't know if that was negligent or preventable at all.

Anyone who survives to adulthood has had massive amounts of Divine support. Toddlers have zero judgment while also often being quicker than their adult caregivers, whose visual field and attention are limited. We can only do our best while recognizing that our best is probably not foolproof. Except in cases of extreme parental abuse or stupidity, when I hear of a little kid getting hurt, I offer up a small prayer and think "There but for the grace of G-d go I."

Let's not go all Harambe here.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 16 2017, 12:10 am
seeker wrote:
To all those yelping in judgment, I give you a bracha that you should never know from single mothering. Because you obviously don't.

I'm not talking to people who expressed respectful concern about the family's safety. I'm talking about the "what OMG how could you even think of sleeping while you're responsible for little kids?!!!!!" The answer is because when you're the only one responsible for these little kids 24 hours a day for many days in a row, then you have very little choice. It sounds like the mother here has more than one small child, if I'm understanding correctly, and they are very young. I had two young children and even though I was not a single mother I remember many nights when they would wake in middle of the night not at the same time and then nap during the day not at the same time, no matter how hard I tried to get them on some schedule, leaving them well-rested and me in a dysfunctional zombie state. Let's also assume that even if/though the kids are in day care, the mother is probably spending those hours working because how many divorcees (whose exes are launching a nasty custody battle at the same time) have all their needs provided for them?

I don't know what else there is to this story, I'm pretty sure none of us here do, and I'm not going to say whether OP or her friend are right or wrong or somewhere in between, and I support the suggestions of improved childproofing and increased use of community and/or social resources. But what I won't do is castigate the whole idea of mothers resting on duty. It may not be ideal but it happens. We don't even know if the child was awake when the mother began her nap. We don't know if the mother's nap was in a closed room with the child. We don't even know if the mother's nap was intentional. All we're told is that the child got into a mess while the mother was asleep, which indicates that there may have been an unsafe condition at the time, but we don't know if that was negligent or preventable at all.

Anyone who survives to adulthood has had massive amounts of Divine support. Toddlers have zero judgment while also often being quicker than their adult caregivers, whose visual field and attention are limited. We can only do our best while recognizing that our best is probably not foolproof. Except in cases of extreme parental abuse or stupidity, when I hear of a little kid getting hurt, I offer up a small prayer and think "There but for the grace of G-d go I."

Let's not go all Harambe here.


According to my friend, the child was playing quietly in the mom's bedroom. The baby and the mom went to sleep. Mom was exhausted and felt she really needed to sleep to function. She knowingly went to sleep. This happened regularly without incident.

The child was not in imminent danger.
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 16 2017, 4:41 am
I feel almost embarrassed to say on this board that I nap in the afternoon with my children home. I feel I am by far not the only one and many ladies here are scared to admit it since they will be called irregardless negligent. This is NORMAL. Mommies get overworked and tired. It's safer to take a short nap then lose your cool with your kids due to exhaustion.
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PAMOM




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 16 2017, 6:19 am
Lymnok, napping with very young children awake or asleep is not the same as napping with very young children who have unlimited access to your house or apartment.
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 16 2017, 7:01 am
I didn't say anywhere that I limit their access before I go lay down. I might bolt the front door to keep them inside.
The biggest danger is one child hurting another. Really. All the dangerous stuff it out of reach ALL the time.


*edit to my previous post, irresponsible, negligent.
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