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Frum magazines are attacking sheital weairing women?
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 6:12 am
mummiedearest wrote:
actually, tell mr. klein to stop being a creep. I can assure you, the wig is not responsible for the flirting. any discussion comparing hair coverings based on this scenario is ridiculous. a man who chooses to flirt with a woman who is not his wife is making a conscious decision to do so. he is responsible for it, not the head coverings of his wife and neighbor.


Actually, I don't even think he was necessarily flirting with her. I think she used it to convey her own distorted thinking about the subject. My answer was to her in her distorted way of thinking. If you think that that's what causes him to flirt with you, don't you think his wife would be better of wearing a wig?
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 6:15 am
amother wrote:
I didn't hear the speech but there is a young woman who was in high school with me who is fighting for her life. One teacher in my high school did ask ppl if u r able to to cut ur shaitel am inch or so as a zchus. I think it is a beautiful thing to do if u r able to.


If necessary.

Did anyone see the letters this week? Chani Juravel summed it up well: Leaving aside the head covering wars, you have to appreciate the author's passion, and let's stop for a moment and see how passionate we are in how we approach mitzvos.
I'll add, we don't have to evangelize, but we should fully own our kiyum hamitzvos, not just do things because we don't know otherwise. (Which is not a bad thing, to have such mesorah, but it goes back to the whole tzadik ben tzadik vs. tzadik ben rasha thing re Yitzchak and Rivka. Rivka was a tzadeikes, but all she had to do was look at her father and do the opposite. For Yitzchak to look at his father and just do the same wouldn't have been his avodah at all.)
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Notsobusy




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 6:17 am
amother wrote:
Actually, I don't even think he was necessarily flirting with her. I think she used it to convey her own distorted thinking about the subject. My answer was to her in her distorted way of thinking. If you think that that's what causes him to flirt with you, don't you think his wife would be better of wearing a wig?


I think you may have misunderstood what she wrote, I didn't see anything about his wife wearing tichels. I reread it because I didn't remember it like that, and I think she wrote that when she started wearing tichels he stopped flirting and now that she was wearing a sheitel again he was flirting again. But I do agree with you that's it sounds like it's just her own distorted thinking. Or maybe she has one neighbor who's an idiot. Doesn't mean she can't wear a sheitel because she has one idiotic neighbor.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 6:19 am
amother wrote:
Actually, I don't even think he was necessarily flirting with her. I think she used it to convey her own distorted thinking about the subject. My answer was to her in her distorted way of thinking. If you think that that's what causes him to flirt with you, don't you think his wife would be better of wearing a wig?


your response encourages further distorted thinking. if mr. klein is flirting outside his marriage, it is fully his responsibility. no sheitel or lack thereof is responsible. it's possible that she's seeing something that is not there, but even her misjudgment is misplaced. indicating that mrs. klein should bring her sheitel out of retirement indicates that mrs. klein is responsible for mr. klein's behavior. she is not.
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ruchelbuckle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 6:52 am
amother wrote:
I don't see the beauty in it. Trust me, no one is getting better because some women cut an inch off their sheitels. It's useless, and all it does is foster unhealthy obsession and guilt with tznius rules. I am not impressed.



Wow. I didn't know anyone with nevuah or ruach hakodesh was hanging out on imamother. Rolling Eyes

Are you serious? No one is getting better because someone took something upon themselves? No bracha is being generated because someone tried to improve themselves and/or their relationship with Hashem?

Just because YOU don't understand it, it doesn't make it worthless.

I don't understand a lot of things that other people do in terms of their actions. I don't know why people put together a group of 40 ladies to take challah. I don't know why some people don't eat specific hechsherim that talmidei chochomim have told me are very reliable. I don't know why some people don't say Tehillim at night.
That doesn't mean that these practices are worthless OR that it makes it okay for me to put the practices down/make fun of them.

Amother-- grow up and get over it. I'm sorry that you're "not impressed," but maybe you need to start focusing on your own internal growth rather than put down the ways of other people that you don't understand.


As a side note, I am a die-hard sheitel wearer. I have no interest in a tichel. I almost never go out of my house without a sheitel--- even to the grocery. However, I loved the serial. I thought it was a beautiful perspective on one person's struggle to do what she felt was an appropriate move in her avodah. It's not for me....but I appreciate her struggle for growth, and TRUST ME (being snarky here)--- I have no doubt that her personal struggle generated bracha.
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amother
Papaya


 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 8:18 am
amother wrote:
Yes the Rebbe did say that it is best to wear a wig and it should be a beautiful one that one is comfortable wearing

This is true and if you are Chabad you should follow what the Rebbe said. This doesn't mean it applies across the board. that's what I learned in a shiur on the topic not long ago. I'm not saying I'm against shaitels, I wear one on special occasions but just pointing out that not all rabbis say the same as the rebbe did.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 9:43 am
amother wrote:
Watergirl, I want to apologize if you saw my post as being negative to all tichel wearers. I absolutely did not mean it that way.

I was specifically talking about the tone of this writer and her group of friends.

I have nothing against the concept of one wearing a tichel. Kol Hakavod to you!

Ok, thanks.

I just want to say, regarding these tichel gatherings and groups of friends - I know it does seem strange to you - but they kind of exist and they are important for some of us. My friends and I actually put together such swaps and "destash for cash" type events with food and a speaker. Its fun to be with like minded ladies and get chizzuk (and free stuff!) sometimes. Its not monthly, but there are a few a year where I live and we look forward to it. We ooh and ahh over each other, give tips on wrapping, "where did you get that? send me the link!" and yes, the guest speaker is very important too. We all have our own convictions in life, and sometimes its hard to maintain them with out feeding your soul!

Just for funsies, I would recommend you pay attention to Wrapunzel - they travel - go check out one of their events if they ever come to you. If thats not possible, or even if it is - here is an amazing video from a Wrapunzel show, where Penina Taylor spoke about "Intentionally Wrapping". Her speech is FANTASTIC and even if you arent a head wrapper, it will infuse your mitzvos with kavanah and INTENT. Its a wonderful video. It also gives you an idea of what the author had in mind when she was describing the wrapping event. The video I am attaching has a few shots of the ladies at the event helping each other. But the main thing to watch is Penina's speech. It is excellent. It's even helped my husband with his tfillin kavanah!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPu_9_IXHBg
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 9:56 am
watergirl wrote:
Ok, thanks.

I just want to say, regarding these tichel gatherings and groups of friends - I know it does seem strange to you - but they kind of exist and they are important for some of us. My friends and I actually put together such swaps and "destash for cash" type events with food and a speaker. Its fun to be with like minded ladies and get chizzuk (and free stuff!) sometimes. Its not monthly, but there are a few a year where I live and we look forward to it. We ooh and ahh over each other, give tips on wrapping, "where did you get that? send me the link!" and yes, the guest speaker is very important too. We all have our own convictions in life, and sometimes its hard to maintain them with out feeding your soul!

Just for funsies, I would recommend you pay attention to Wrapunzel - they travel - go check out one of their events if they ever come to you. If thats not possible, or even if it is - here is an amazing video from a Wrapunzel show, where Penina Taylor spoke about "Intentionally Wrapping". Her speech is FANTASTIC and even if you arent a head wrapper, it will infuse your mitzvos with kavanah and INTENT. Its a wonderful video. It also gives you an idea of what the author had in mind when she was describing the wrapping event. The video I am attaching has a few shots of the ladies at the event helping each other. But the main thing to watch is Penina's speech. It is excellent. It's even helped my husband with his tfillin kavanah!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPu_9_IXHBg


I wish you would have written the articles! Your tone is soooo different and refreshing. I am actually a person who is quite open to all types of things.
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amother
Emerald


 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 10:05 am
watergirl wrote:
Ok, thanks.

I just want to say, regarding these tichel gatherings and groups of friends - I know it does seem strange to you - but they kind of exist and they are important for some of us. My friends and I actually put together such swaps and "destash for cash" type events with food and a speaker. Its fun to be with like minded ladies and get chizzuk (and free stuff!) sometimes. Its not monthly, but there are a few a year where I live and we look forward to it. We ooh and ahh over each other, give tips on wrapping, "where did you get that? send me the link!" and yes, the guest speaker is very important too. We all have our own convictions in life, and sometimes its hard to maintain them with out feeding your soul!

Just for funsies, I would recommend you pay attention to Wrapunzel - they travel - go check out one of their events if they ever come to you. If thats not possible, or even if it is - here is an amazing video from a Wrapunzel show, where Penina Taylor spoke about "Intentionally Wrapping". Her speech is FANTASTIC and even if you arent a head wrapper, it will infuse your mitzvos with kavanah and INTENT. Its a wonderful video. It also gives you an idea of what the author had in mind when she was describing the wrapping event. The video I am attaching has a few shots of the ladies at the event helping each other. But the main thing to watch is Penina's speech. It is excellent. It's even helped my husband with his tfillin kavanah!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPu_9_IXHBg


I clicked on the link. I really can't believe the music in the background. This is very disappointing. A bunch of ladies here are deciding that this is a better thing to do but who is the rav behind it? Something is not right. I can't imagine that a rav would even allow for these long , colorful, flowing scarves.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 10:10 am
amother wrote:
I wish you would have written the articles! Your tone is soooo different and refreshing. I am actually a person who is quite open to all types of things.

Aww thanks!
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Sadie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 10:11 am
amother wrote:
I clicked on the link. I really can't believe the music in the background. This is very disappointing. A bunch of ladies here are deciding that this is a better thing to do but who is the rav behind it? Something is not right. I can't imagine that a rav would even allow for these long , colorful, flowing scarves.


You can't believe that "a rav" would allow long colorful scarves? Better stay away from Israel; these types of scarves are 100% mainstream here.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 10:12 am
amother wrote:
I clicked on the link. I really can't believe the music in the background. This is very disappointing. A bunch of ladies here are deciding that this is a better thing to do but who is the rav behind it? Something is not right. I can't imagine that a rav would even allow for these long , colorful, flowing scarves.

Much of Wrapunzel's fanbase is not jewish. Thats an old song by "Chicago". They appeal to many audiences and as its their parnassa, this is part of how they advertise. Did you even watch the speech? My guess is you are too closeminded.

Btw what rav would approve it? All do.
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Water Stones




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 10:28 am
Sadie wrote:
You can't believe that "a rav" would allow long colorful scarves? Better stay away from Israel; these types of scarves are 100% mainstream here.


I would LOVE be able to wear them!
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amother
Red


 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 10:32 am
Sadie wrote:
You can't believe that "a rav" would allow long colorful scarves? Better stay away from Israel; these types of scarves are 100% mainstream here.


Some people think that anything pretty is assur. Anything that isn't black, dark or pastel colored is assur too. Apparently beauty is tumah.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 10:56 am
Seashells wrote:
I would LOVE be able to wear them!
so wear them!
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 11:10 am
I've been a Wrapunzel fan from the early days of the blog, before they even opened their store. The tutorial videos are priceless, and I love reading the interviews with hair wrappers across many different cultures and religions.

I don't do the fancy multi scarf wraps, but I can take one or two scarves and make something very attractive, but not over the top. (LOL, I just saw the pun there!)

I own two very nice sheitels, and I wear them for weddings and such, but it's just not "me". Nothing to do with whether I think one way is right or wrong, but just how I like to view myself.

DH is Lubavitch, but he totally supports my scarf collecting obsession. As long as I'm happy doing the mitzvah, that's all he cares about.
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 11:26 am
watergirl wrote:
Ok, thanks.

I just want to say, regarding these tichel gatherings and groups of friends - I know it does seem strange to you - but they kind of exist and they are important for some of us. My friends and I actually put together such swaps and "destash for cash" type events with food and a speaker. Its fun to be with like minded ladies and get chizzuk (and free stuff!) sometimes. Its not monthly, but there are a few a year where I live and we look forward to it. We ooh and ahh over each other, give tips on wrapping, "where did you get that? send me the link!" and yes, the guest speaker is very important too. We all have our own convictions in life, and sometimes its hard to maintain them with out feeding your soul!

Just for funsies, I would recommend you pay attention to Wrapunzel - they travel - go check out one of their events if they ever come to you. If thats not possible, or even if it is - here is an amazing video from a Wrapunzel show, where Penina Taylor spoke about "Intentionally Wrapping". Her speech is FANTASTIC and even if you arent a head wrapper, it will infuse your mitzvos with kavanah and INTENT. Its a wonderful video. It also gives you an idea of what the author had in mind when she was describing the wrapping event. The video I am attaching has a few shots of the ladies at the event helping each other. But the main thing to watch is Penina's speech. It is excellent. It's even helped my husband with his tfillin kavanah!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPu_9_IXHBg


This is so beautiful! Im so impressed!
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 11:35 am
amother wrote:
This is so beautiful! Im so impressed!

Thank you!
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amother
Babypink


 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 12:14 pm
mummiedearest wrote:
your response encourages further distorted thinking. if mr. klein is flirting outside his marriage, it is fully his responsibility. no sheitel or lack thereof is responsible. it's possible that she's seeing something that is not there, but even her misjudgment is misplaced. indicating that mrs. klein should bring her sheitel out of retirement indicates that mrs. klein is responsible for mr. klein's behavior. she is not.


I also find that the way a woman interprets men's reactions can be very subjective and based on her own feelings and self-confidence more than it is necessarily an accurate reflection of the man's feelings or behavior.

I know that when I was younger and felt very attractive and noticeable, there were many instances where I subconsciously assumed z-xual interest from men's attention, even when it wasn't explicitly stated. If a friend said to me "oh he definitely liked you" I probably would have thought well, OK sure, I'm 22 and cute!

Now, twenty years later, a man would have to hit me over the head with a club and drag me into a cave before I would assume z-xual interest. A few weeks ago my aunt said to me "you know that guy was kinda flirting with you" and I was like, Huh? Well, if you say so, I suppose I have a sort of vague recollection of such things....

My point is that if when wearing a sheitel she feels more attractive and attracting than when she is wearing a tichel, her analysis of men's reactions to her at these times may be very skewed and inaccurate.
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 2:50 pm
I am tending very much to tichels but in the back of my mind wondering - how is this different than the Burka women or shawl women? All seem to me to be women taking their dress into their own hands with more or less Rabbinic or husbandly approval. Is it totally different or only a matter of degree? (And does this need its own thread?)
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