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How could the Nazis have been so heartless?
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rimon613




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 12:32 am
What happened to the Holocaust victims has always been close to my heart. Whenever I read or hear stories of the Holocaust I cry. I want to understand how could the Nazis have been so heartless to do such evil things to men, women, and children?
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 12:47 am
My question is always how can Hashem be so cruel to use the Nazim to torture His people?

Then I try to stop this thought because all it does is make me sad.
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LisaS




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 1:02 am
It's impossibly to grasp. My grandparents who lived through it all struggled all their lives with these questions and now they are in olam haemet and have all the answers.
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 3:10 am
If you look at it in purely technical and psychological terms, it won't work and you can get upset at Hashem. You have to look at the big picture. This is not the first time in history that such a thing happened. It was larger due to technology, but no more horrific on the individual level than other gezeiros throughout history. All of our tormentors would have loved to do the same thing.
The holocaust didn't happen in a vacuum. Just like the destruction of the beis hamikdosh didn't happen in a vacuum. We know why it was destroyed, from our actions. In each generation we have the opportunity to fix it.
Look at the observance of the Jews in Europe in the era before WWII. There were many ideas and "isms" influencing our people away from torah observance. There was an eruption of observance after. It was horrible medicine that accomplished a goal, not without immense pain.

It's not so simple to just to try to understand why the foot soldiers did it.
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amother
White


 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 3:25 am
The way I see it, they were desensitized on such a level that they didn't see Jews as human beings. Obviously, it still doesn't make it truly understandable. But it's similar to what the Arabs are doing, unfortunately Sad

A relative of mine remembers that when they were pretending to be non-Jews during the war they heard one person ask the other 'what's that noise?' and the other responded 'Oh, they are just shooting the Jews...' as if Jews were just a specimen to be dealt with.

I find it frightening that human beings can become desensitized to such an extent. But we know that it can only happen when Hashem wills it so.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 3:33 am
Actually the frummest communities were often (not always!) those who were the most decimated, and the survivors for the most part went down in observance if not totally gave up. Let's not prtend we know why, rabbis don't even allow that, for very obvious reasons. If you are an ilui kabbalist, then discuss it with your iluim kabbalists and keep it away from each for the layman. Even the Satmarer said that someone with the tattoo who still wore tefillin was a tzadik/gadol. Let's not be more royalist than the king as we say. Sigh, the "answers" given to this topic just torture the survivors and turn off their descendants!!!!!!!
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chayamiriam




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 3:59 am
I hate when people say oh it was the generation of the observance of the Jews of the generation. The Jews of that generation were far far holier then the present ones. I don't understand were the babies sinners too ?? All of my grandparents died in the Holocaust, my aunts, uncles, and their children. They were all extremely observant and struggled all their short lives to observe the mitzvot, I try not to think of the Holocaust because I just cant understand why??? So sad that people can pin a reason on an event who's level of torture and murder were never seen in history before!
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 4:23 am
First, most people have the capacity for aggression and misplaced hatred. They just need sufficient motivation to act on it.

Second, studies to figure out the answer to this question have proven that the majority of people will listen to a person of authority, even if it seems like they're causing someone pain.

Further studies have proven that most people will fail to act differently than the rest of a crowd. If someone needs help, they'll assume someone else will help.

Third, many of the nazis were forced to act or they and their families would be killed for treason.

War attracts the sadists among us. Some Germans and German officials fled before they could be forced to participate. The ones who stayed were either desperate for change, unable to flee or sadists.
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m in Israel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 4:30 am
gp2.0 wrote:
First, most people have the capacity for aggression and misplaced hatred. They just need sufficient motivation to act on it.

Second, studies to figure out the answer to this question have proven that the majority of people will listen to a person of authority, even if it seems like they're causing someone pain.

Further studies have proven that most people will fail to act differently than the rest of a crowd. If someone needs help, they'll assume someone else will help.

Third, many of the nazis were forced to act or they and their families would be killed for treason.

War attracts the sadists among us. Some Germans and German officials fled before they could be forced to participate. The ones who stayed were either desperate for change, unable to flee or sadists.


I agree with all your points except your last sentence, which actually contradicts your early, psychologically correct points. Even people who are not "sadists" or desperate can end up doing horrifying things if the psychological components are in place. The Milgram studies that you referenced in your second point are fascinating but really just one aspect of how not difficult it can be to get even large groups of people to act in morally depraved ways.
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chayamiriam




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 4:51 am
I think all the above reasons are somewhat right. They looked and were convinced that Jews were not human the same way they are,more like vermin to be exterminated!
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 5:16 am
m in Israel wrote:
I agree with all your points except your last sentence, which actually contradicts your early, psychologically correct points. Even people who are not "sadists" or desperate can end up doing horrifying things if the psychological components are in place. The Milgram studies that you referenced in your second point are fascinating but really just one aspect of how not difficult it can be to get even large groups of people to act in morally depraved ways.


You're right. I originally included "complacent" people in my last paragraph but it's actually not that simple. People in Germany were starving before World War II. Most of them were so desperate for change than they were complacent about how that change took place. But that doesn't mean they would have been as equally complacent if they hadn't been that desperate first.
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 5:16 am
Klausenberger Rebbe lost a wife and 11 kids and after the war instead of mopping and being depressed he helped Jewry to continue on and being there for so many people by giving them strength to go on. He remarried had another nice size family. When you read the Holocaust books you also see there were so many miracles also.
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 5:19 am
The Germans were so educated and polished and look how they stopped with sooo many other countries cooperating. Hitlers book mein kampf still being sold in large amounts.
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 5:27 am
Also, eugenics was a popular idea at the time in countries like England and the US. Professors discussed, in theory, the idea of creating a perfect human race and the ways it would be possible to do so. There was a lot of scientific funding towards this goal. But the most extreme idea they came up with was sterilization, not mass murder.

The Nazi ideas of a perfect human race didn't exist in a vacuum. The eugenics movement was very popular and the Nazis claimed to have based their ideas on it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik.....tates
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tiger88




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 5:49 am
It's happing now, just look at ISIS selling and raping woman, mass murders . Using children to kill people.....
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 5:50 am
Everyone is right.

This reminds me of the fable of the blind men and the elephant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.....phant

None of us can see the whole picture. It's too vast, and our understanding is too limited.

I remember once, after a shul event, a woman offered me a ride home. In the back seat was her elderly mother. It was a very hot day, and she was wearing a tank top. The mother started to apologize to me for the way she was dressed, and said something about being a survivor, not very observant, etc.

I smiled and told her "We are forbidden to judge the Holocaust generation." She looked at me with tears in her eyes and said "Thank you." Just two words, but they were the most eloquent words I've ever heard. I'll never forget the look on her face, as she took my hand in hers.
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 5:55 am
I think its heartless to ask the descendants of holocaust survivors to explain and justify how the nazis could have been so heartless.

Ask the question to the nazis' descendants and let them try to figure it out.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 5:56 am
I just want to iterate an important point:
Sheb'chol dor v'dor.
Children used as bricks in Mitzrayim.
Sisra's mother consoling herself when her son was late that he was busy assaulting Jewish women.
The churban, both of them. Read Leah Gebber's book, Chains. Of course, the Romans treated all slaves, from all countries brutally, but I'm sure this is a sanitized version of what she found in research.
The Crusades, the Inquisition, pogroms throughout history.

The Nazis were the most recent, the most documented, the most technologically advanced.
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amother
Crimson


 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 6:17 am
The power of hate, brainwashing..

I think that if somebody like Hitler would stand up today and start spouting hate against Jews... I believe he would have millions of followers ready to kill Jews. There is so much antisemitism out there. Look at what's going on, on college campuses.
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amother
Pink


 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2017, 6:19 am
Like other posters have said the soldiers were for the most part "brain washed" and desensitized.
Also there is a lot of research now on drug usage in the nazi army. Soldiers were given drugs to enhance their fighting. These also blocked out any trauma (and guilt) and made soldiers more confident and vicious.
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