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Ivanka Trump - heter to drive on Shabbos bec pikuach nefesh
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 20 2017, 10:32 am
amother wrote:
Just wondering, why does she call herself Trump, and not Kushner?


The Trump brand?
But you're right. Moderators, please rename this thread "re Yael Kushner - heter etc."
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amother
Blush


 

Post Fri, Jan 20 2017, 10:46 am
Rebecca Beck wrote:
I'm honestly a live and let live girl but I always wondered this about Ivanka. Did she have a fully orthodox halachik conversion? Also, I wouldn't call her frum... at least not my version of frum. (sorry if this sounds holier than thou, I'm really not, but that's how I see it)


Also check out the LH thread. Welcome!
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dee's mommy




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 20 2017, 11:00 am
I've been thinking about this during the night, and the conclusion I come to is this:

We don't know all of the details of the shaila that was asked. We don't know all of the details of the psak that was given. The articles writing about this are very vague about that, leaving readers speculating and judging based on details we don't know. On the surface of it, I don't think would make the same choice, but I am not in this situation, or in this family. Only the Kushners know all of the details of their particular situation and solution.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 20 2017, 12:41 pm
amother wrote:
Just wondering, why does she call herself Trump, and not Kushner?


Oh, puh-leeze! You ask this in the twenty-first century? Women in the US are no longer required to adopt their husband's surname, if in fact they were ever legally required to. Many many women, even if they are not from families that are household words, elect to keep their own surnames for reasons ranging from simply not wanting to go through the hassle to wanting to maintain their name recognition if they have established a professional reputation under their birth name.

Upon conversion, one acquires a Jewish given name. One is not required to change one's surname, which has no halachic relevance.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Fri, Jan 20 2017, 12:58 pm
zaq wrote:
Oh, puh-leeze! You ask this in the twenty-first century? Women in the US are no longer required to adopt their husband's surname, if in fact they were ever legally required to. Many many women, even if they are not from families that are household words, elect to keep their own surnames for reasons ranging from simply not wanting to go through the hassle to wanting to maintain their name recognition if they have established a professional reputation under their birth name.

Upon conversion, one acquires a Jewish given name. One is not required to change one's surname, which has no halachic relevance.


Oh puh-leeze! I didnt say she is required to change her name, I know that many women dont, but most women still do take on their husbands name. I was stam curious if there was a special reason why she didnt.
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 20 2017, 1:10 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
The Trump brand?
But you're right. Moderators, please rename this thread "re Yael Kushner - heter etc."


LOL, PinkFridge! T'was brill.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 20 2017, 1:24 pm
amother wrote:
Oh puh-leeze! I didnt say she is required to change her name, I know that many women dont, but most women still do take on their husbands name. I was stam curious if there was a special reason why she didnt.


About 1/3 of all women -- myself included -- do not take their husband's name. An even larger percentage use their maiden names, in which they have an established reputation, professionally, but their husband's name in personal matters.

In this case, "Ivana [her real name] Kushner" doesn't open the doors that "Ivanka Trump" does.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Fri, Jan 20 2017, 2:52 pm
PAMOM wrote:
Sea green makes a lot of sense. I also like the fact that she makes her points without attacking those of us who don't like Trump's politics or those of us who may.


Thank you! That was one of my goals (along with not revealing how I feel about Trump) and I'm glad to hear that I succeeded.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Fri, Jan 20 2017, 3:07 pm
amother wrote:
Oh puh-leeze! I didnt say she is required to change her name, I know that many women dont, but most women still do take on their husbands name. I was stam curious if there was a special reason why she didnt.


You may find this interesting. It's from 2013, well before the campaign and election. I think keeping the Trump name was smart, and I don't think it's taking advantage or any kind of rejection of her husband (her kids are Kushners, after all). She started establishing herself before getting married so the continuity is important, and the name does give her recognition globally; not everyone will know who "Ivanka Kushner" is but they do know the Trump and and have associations with it.

Quote:
HOW DO YOU RELATE YOUR FASHION BRAND TO YOUR OTHER ACTIVITIES AND THE TRUMP BRAND?

I spend my day opening hotels in key cities around the world and selling ultraluxury condominiums. I don’t want to do anything that dilutes or cheapens that effort. The nice thing about the things I’m involved in is that they’re all complementary. We’re a family company. We’re a family brand. For me, at the ribbon-cutting of a hotel that I’ve been working on in Beijing for five years, wearing Ivanka Trump — that’s an image you can’t fake create. I made a specific choice not to call my collection Ivanka. There’s so much value in the Trump name. And there’s such a deep connection to luxury and success. So when we think about the hot markets around the world, in Brazil and China, that’s what resonates with those buyers.

...

PEOPLE WILL SAY YOU’VE HAD ADVANTAGES BECAUSE OF YOUR DAD.

I think time has debunked some of the criticisms that people could throw at me. There will always be people who will say I wouldn’t be in this position were it not for my last name, and I don’t disagree with them. Truthfully, it would be a futile argument because they very well may be right. But I also know that I could be doing a lot less.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09......html
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amother
Linen


 

Post Sat, Jan 21 2017, 8:16 pm
Anon- because don't want to be linked back to the rav.

I had some mixed feelings about the heter until dh had a discussion shabbos afternoon with a posek (who usually paskens about life and death issues and is also not known for apologetics of any kind) about it. He mentioned as a poster did, about IT being Karov lemalchus and it not being 'optional' for her to attend, the real need for constant secret service and that it was a very understandable psak.
I think some of us respond from what we feel, not from any real halachic knowledge.
As an aside, I heard she didn't take any phone calls during the campaign on shabbos, and that would be pretty impressive.
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momX4




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 21 2017, 9:51 pm
amother wrote:
Just wondering, why does she call herself Trump, and not Kushner?


I know professionals, including lawyers, doctors and dentists, that kept their name after marriage. They began practicing before they got married. Their kids have the husbands name. A friend of mine told me when she has a baby she reminds them at the feedings that its not baby X, but baby Y.
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causemommysaid




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 21 2017, 9:56 pm
amother wrote:
Anon- because don't want to be linked back to the rav.

I had some mixed feelings about the heter until dh had a discussion shabbos afternoon with a posek (who usually paskens about life and death issues and is also not known for apologetics of any kind) about it. He mentioned as a poster did, about IT being Karov lemalchus and it not being 'optional' for her to attend, the real need for constant secret service and that it was a very understandable psak.
I think some of us respond from what we feel, not from any real halachic knowledge.
As an aside, I heard she didn't take any phone calls during the campaign on shabbos, and that would be pretty impressive.



This. I don't really understand the argument not to go to the inaugural events. Her father is becoming the most poweful man in the world.Of course she has to go. She has to go and her husband has to go. Why are we holding her to the same standard as the average orthodox woman. There is nothing average about her or her lifestyle and an intelligent rabbi takes that into consideration when answering her halachic shailas. There are so many factors here to consider and it's so plebeian to say she should just stay home.
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Chocoholic




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 21 2017, 10:01 pm
If Ivanka wasn't a giyoret I'm sure this wouldn't be discussed like it is.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 21 2017, 10:08 pm
celesteno wrote:
Doesn't anyone remember Joe Lieberman, this stuff was hashed out over and over again. He was the actual Vice Presidential nominee and walked many places on Shabbat. If she was just going to the swearing in ceremony I don't understand how this is necessary. If she's going to be in the parade which is only going to be 1.5 hours long then I could see how she might end up cutting it close due to road closures (but again that stuff is being coordinated by the same people driving so I don't get it). If she's going to the balls then I don't remotely get how that's ok. I would love to know the circumstances this heter applies to as well as who gave it.

Duh.....Joe Lieberman was no where near as controversial as Ivankas dad. There were violent protests nearby. Some of these crazies wouldnt hesitate to take out their frustrations on Trumps daughter.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 21 2017, 10:14 pm
Just asked husb..

1) If a non jew is driving its a drabonim

2) The main question is if the extra weight in car makes it burn more fuel..

3) Its shvus d shvus bmokom tzurich


According to Reb Moshe most Rishonim allow that...

Especially if its a sheni lmalchus
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Cmon be nice




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 21 2017, 11:30 pm
What happened in the end? Did she go to the balls and were they driven by a non jew?
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cnc




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 21 2017, 11:38 pm
Cmon be nice wrote:
What happened in the end? Did she go to the balls and were they driven by a non jew?


She was at the ball as evidenced by the clip on the other thread.
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momX4




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 21 2017, 11:48 pm
Cmon be nice wrote:
What happened in the end? Did she go to the balls and were they driven by a non jew?


I'm more upset that a frum person went into a church. There were discussions here about family weddings taking place in a church and how they cant attend. I would love to know if anyone got a heter to go into a church for anything.

Being a passenger in a car on shabbos is between the passenger (and the rabbi) and god. Going into a church seems to me like an acceptance of a religion other than Judaism, which I find offensive. The Kushner/Trump couple is known to be orthodox. How can you explain to a non jew that you cant attend their wedding in a church now.

There is good reasoning that this is being discussed here. Its in the news as well and some frum professionals fear that there may be some backlash. They may not be able to get out of weekend conferences so easily now.
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Sadie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 22 2017, 1:20 am
momX4 wrote:
I know professionals, including lawyers, doctors and dentists, that kept their name after marriage. They began practicing before they got married. Their kids have the husbands name. A friend of mine told me when she has a baby she reminds them at the feedings that its not baby X, but baby Y.


One doesn't have to be an established professional to justify keeping her own name after marriage. I'm not, and I kept mine. And some babies get the mother's last name (not many, but a couple I know just had a baby and did it this way.) Many more babies get both parents' last names.
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Hatemywig




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 22 2017, 1:52 am
Chocoholic wrote:
If Ivanka wasn't a giyoret I'm sure this wouldn't be discussed like it is.


I really disagree!
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