How can Jews support this??

Teomima

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 1:34 pm

I am so disgusted by President Trump's recent actions against refugees. I did not vote for him and right now I have no idea how anyone could support having voted for him. How many of us would not be here today had our grandparents and great grandparents not been taken in as refugees escaping the Holocaust?

Not to mention Eretz Yisrael, Eretz Hakodesh, is an entire country, an entire nation, built by and for refugees who come in by the boat and plane load, to this day, looking to escape the discrimination and persecution they face, to start a new life in a land of freedom. Israel welcomes every Jew to a country the size of New Jersey...while the entire United States is turning away fathers and families who are simply seeking the same (and escaping from worse).

How do yehudim support this??

heidi

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 1:59 pm

My great grandparents came to America and worked hard and raised fine families. As did millions of other Jewish, Italian, Chinese etc. immigrants.
The new wave of Muslim immigrants have a disproportionate number of deaths to their credit.

theoneandonly

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 2:33 pm

Jewish refugees fleeing the Holocaust did not have secret Nazis hidden among them, coming to start their war on non-Aryans in America.

Refugees from Syria etc DO have hidden terrorists among them. How is this a comparison?

Raisin

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 2:36 pm

heidi wrote:

Since Trump has excluded Saudi Arabia from his list of countries he is not accepting immigrants from, I'd be curious how many people have died in terror attacks due to immigration from Syria, Iran, Iraq and the other countries on his list.

15 out of 20 of the 9/11 terrorists were saudi.

Teomima

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 2:52 pm

How is that a comparison? Yes, there are many Muslim terrorists. There are also many non-Muslim terrorists. More importantly, there are many non-refugee terrorists (because before you go complaining about the Orlando shooting, keep in mind he was born in the good old US of A). But most importantly, there are good people, thousands of good, innocent people, many of whom have put their own lives on the line to help the US, who are now being denied asylum.

Not to mention, Trump's thinly veiled unconstitutional prioritization of Christian refugees.

Anne Frank's father was denied a US visa, for nearly the same reason (a heightened fear of spies and saboteurs, making US immigration nearly impossible). Imagine that, what if Anne had survived the war, what if she had been given a visa to join her two uncles who did make it to the US. Just imagine.

FranticFrummie

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 3:19 pm

IMHO, it's not about keeping refugees out, it's about keeping potentially radical MUSLIMS out. I don't have any problem with that.

Read the Koran. They are mandated to impose Sharia law in whatever country the conquer "by sword, conversion, or reproducing in large numbers". They are mandated to kill all non believers. Jihad is a moral imperative.

It is the whole Islamic ideology that needs to be kept out of the borders of any Westernized country. Just ask Sweden, the UK, France, Norway, Denmark, Germany - and any other place where murder and rape gangs rule the streets.

Sadie

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 3:21 pm

theoneandonly wrote:

That's not true. In the post-war chaos many Nazis were able to flee Europe hidden among genuine refugees.

Here's an article about it: https://www.theguardian.com/wo.....ments

Quote:

The Red Cross, overwhelmed by millions of refugees, relied substantially on Vatican references and the often cursory Allied military checks in issuing travel papers, known as 10.100s.

It believed it was primarily helping innocent refugees although correspondence between Red Cross delegations in Genoa, Rome and Geneva shows it was aware Nazis were getting through.

Quote:

The Red Cross refused to comment directly on Steinacher's findings but the organisation says on its website: "The ICRC has previously deplored the fact that Eichmann and other Nazi criminals misused its travel documents to cover their tracks."

Question for those in favor of this ban: Would it have been right for the US and other countries to deny Jewish and other refugees if they believed that a small percentage of refugees could be hidden war criminals?

etky

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 3:36 pm

Sadie wrote:

I think the comparison between war criminals and potentially radicalized Muslim terrorists is uneven. AFAIK, the ex-Nazis who fled Europe after WWII sought quiet and obscurity. Their chief goal was to live out the rest of their lives undetected in a new place. They weren't on a quest to implement the genocidal goals of their defunct ideology in the countries where they found refuge. They arrived as defeated individuals not as operatives of terrorist organziations.
The same is not true of Muslim terrorists who arrive in the West as agents of radical groups, with the express purpose of destroying their host societies.

FranticFrummie

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 3:37 pm

Sadie wrote:

Well, that depends. Did the Jewish refugees have a known, centuries old history of mass murder, beheadings, gang rape, blowing up buildings, hijacking airplanes, preaching hate from their synagogues (starting at the preschool level) or killing people who refused to convert to Judaism? Did they ever kill anyone over an unflattering comic illustration?

Yes, the Vatican had a well known, open secret, that it had "rat lines" for Nazis. The majority got transported to Argentina. The US knowingly took in some Nazis who were doctors and researchers, as well as weapons specialists. I am absolutely against that, and I'm sure you are, too.

Teomima

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 3:44 pm

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I've had to wake my children, in the middle of the night, to the frightening sounds of sirens, in order to rush them to a safe place to take cover while rockets fell outside. Rockets sent by Muslim extremists. And you know what my take on all this is?

I hope those poor parents, who are doing the same in Syria, have a place, a country, to take their children to where they will be safe.

You don't burn down the tree because of a few rotten apples.

etky

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 3:46 pm

I didn't vote for Trump either and I'm ambivalent about his latest anti-immigration measures.
They seem inconsistent and arbitrary - as if he's shooting from the hip.
But- I think one of the main reasons he was elected President was that many Americans are tired of being told that their instincts for self-preservation are wrong, selfish, misinformed and unenlightened when their gut- and a glance across the ocean- is telling them otherwise.

FranticFrummie

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 3:49 pm

etky wrote:

All one has to do is read the news outside your daled amot, and you'll have a really good idea of what is headed towards the US. I suggest starting with The Gatestone Institute.

Sadie

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 3:59 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

The people you're describing are the people the refugees are fleeing from.

That's why we have years long vetting processes. Some of these refugees already received their visas, sold all their belongings, and were waiting for their planes when they were told they have nowhere to go.

It's also grossly hypocritical that most of the 7 countries that are being banned are countries that we've had a hand in destabilizing. Some of the refugees being denied are translators who worked for the US army in Iraq and are now in danger because of that connection to the US.

Travel to the US continues as usual for citizens of the UAE and Saudi Arabia. Any guesses why?

mommy3b2c

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 6:39 pm

I'm not really to involved in politics, I don't feel I understand the issues well enough to have a strong opinion. I just want to make sure that all of you realize that FDR, champion of the liberals, and his administration actually sent back thousands of Jewish refuges to their death. First I want to hear all your condemnations of him, then maybe I'll listen to what you have to say.

Raisin

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 6:46 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Yes, he was completely wrong and disgusting. Even though no one knew the holocaust would happen, kristalnacht had, and people had been put in concentration camps.

Thank goodness my family were allowed to enter the UK. I mean, they could have been Nazi spies pretending to be Jews. How could you possible know?!

Is FDR "champion of the liberals?" Really? I've definitely heard condemnation of him in the past for precisely this. (and not bombing the train tracks to Auschwitz, etc)

shoshanim999

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 6:51 pm

Teomima wrote:

So when you or anyone else can figure out how to separate the good from the bad, I'm sure Trump will relax his policy and allow refugees in. Until then the world needs to realize that there is an ideology that a scary % of Muslims from some of the Muslim majority countries subscribe to that should make any sane person be concerned.

wondergirl

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 6:54 pm

Jews have been discriminated against for the last several years by a certain govt agency. There is evidence of that but no Jewish lawyer has wanted to accept the case and sue the govt agency because the govt officials discriminating against Jews are black. So Jews won't stand up for themselves when they are being discriminated against by black govt officials but are expected to defend muslims against discrimination by the govt bc the govt officials are white? Why is it that the ACLU and ADL are already filing lawsuits against Trump for discrimination against muslims but refuse to file lawsuits against other govt who discriminate against Jews simply because these govt officials are black? Would you still expect Jews to protect muslims from govt discrimination if Trump was black instead of white? Is this double standard and hypocrisy acceptable to you?

marina

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 6:55 pm

Raisin wrote:

But Trump does business there, so no worries.

marina

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 6:56 pm

wondergirl wrote:

what the **** are you talking about. Use your big girl words.

mommy3b2c

Sat, Jan 28 2017, 6:57 pm

Raisin wrote:

Was it liberals you heard condemning him?