When people think you are better than you are

amother

Bronze

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 4:33 am

So this is a bit of a spin-off of a few threads.

And I'm still really formulating what I'm trying to say in my mind, so please bare with me.

What is our obligation TO EACH OTHER not to appear better than we are? Like if a person compliments you on your parenting and you know that you are not such a great parent, are you obligated to correct them? Or if they think your family is the perfect family but actually your husband has SA, what do you do then? Or they think you have the most amazing kids but actually they have autism and melt down for 2 hours every night?

Often this happens unintentionally. It is more about misconception than misrepresentation. Does that make a difference?

Or if you post under your screen name all your terrific tips for marriage, and your horrible shalom bayis situation you always post anon.

Are we doing each other a disservice by pretending we are better than we are? Could it even be lifnei ivver? Letting people feel that only they have challenges? On the other hand, is speaking up, even if only about oneself, lashon hara?

Perhaps the answer lies somewhere in the idea that the world is full of multiple realities.

Thoughts anyone?

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 4:46 am

I have some thoughts on this.

You know when you're having a horrible day, and someone says casually "How are you?" you answer "Fine, thanks. And you?" Not everyone wants your troubles dumped in their lap. Polite society demands that you pick and choose what and when you share.

My DD is able to hold it together and behave beautifully at other people's houses, and at shul. I constantly get compliments on how amazing she is, and what a great mom I must be. I always answer "Hashem gave me a wonderful child. I can't take the credit, I just do the best I can. B'H, I am very blessed."

I struggle, I make mistakes, but I daven for wisdom and patience daily! I know that without G-d's help, I would fail miserably. It's only fair to give credit where credit's due.

When things are bad with DD, I'll sometimes answer "She's having a tough time right now, but she's trying really hard, and I'm proud of her for how hard she's working."

What really gets me, is when people tell me how beautiful I am. Like I had anything to do with that! My stock answer is "I can thank genetics, and Mabelline!" All the women in my family look young well into their later years. I can't take any credit for that.

SB issues are different. There's the issue of confidentiality. If you might have inlaws or mutual acquaintances on the board (and you can never be sure!), then going anon is only polite for the sake of your DH.

We all know that it can be a very sensitive situation, and everyone has to decide for themselves just how vulnerable they want/need to be. In a lot of ways, posting about serious SB problems under your screen name can feel a lot like "coming out of the closet". Things that you have keep private, are now up for public discussion, for better or worse. That needs to be respected and addressed gently.

amother

Bronze

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 5:08 am

I hear you, ff. I usually know what society demands, and I conform to societal expectations (or at least I try to when I know wat they are). But I also see the damage that these expectations cause. By keeping quiet about our problems, we unintentionally create a facade of perfection that sometimes creates uncomfortable feelings of inferiority in other people. Maybe the facade is not worth the damage.

amother

Blonde

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 5:30 am

Here is my take on this.

For years and years, Dh and I were both working and making nice wages. Ppl thought we were the richest people in town. Was I supposed to tell them that my husband suffers from depression and most of the meds weren't covered by insurance. That I would sometimes have to pay upward of 2k a month on meds that weren't even helping?

They thought things were great for me. Was I supposed to tell them that while I had a steady job, my husbands was more seasonal. So I would sometimes leave for work and hubby would still be sleeping. Come home and find him in the same exact place I left him. In bed.

Or that hubby is a SA.

No. I don't think this is stuff ppl need to know about me. Let them think I am little miss perfect. Let them wonder why, even if I have a good job I am always frugal. Yes, money is tight but some things are just not their business.

amother

Bronze

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 5:40 am

Ok blonde. I'm sorry if I made you feel that I thought you HAD to tell where your story. That would be a horrible thing for me to say. I apologize. I probably should have thought more about this whole idea before posting.

Let's take it only about me (and anyone else who feels this way). What if I feel like people have been misled into thinking that I'm doing better than I am, and I feel guilty about this. How do I know when to fess up and when to keep quiet?

Iymnok

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 6:06 am

Don't.
It's called privacy.
Everyone deserves it and everyone has their pekele.
It is a bad idea to make yourself vulnerable just because you feel guilty. They have no right to know anything about your personal life that you don't CHOOSE to share.
Let them think you're wonderful. Why? Because you are! The surface that the world sees is true. It's not the whole truth, but it's true nonetheless.
Besides, if they think you are better than you are and you disagree, maybe you are wrong?
I honestly feel that most people (myself included) don't value themselves enough and don't appreciate their own value.
Music

So put on a happy face! Music

ora_43

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 6:12 am

I think we need to avoid creating misconceptions, but we aren't responsible for other people's silly assumptions.

Like, if someone is having serious shalom bayit issues, they shouldn't be offering marriage advice with a tone of, "do this, and you'll have a great marriage like mine" (offering advice like "here's how I cope with my husband's addiction" is a different story).

OTOH, if someone sees a couple who don't fight in public and seem to have nice lives, and assumes they must have a great marriage - that's on the viewer. It's silly to assume that people have it easy just because they haven't told you otherwise.

amother

Bronze

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 6:13 am

Lymnok yes I know. This is what I always do. This is what we all do. But at what price? How much are we hurting each other by hiding our darker selves. Even though it is unintentional. If another person feels incompetent because they misjudge me as more competent than I am because I was not honest, did I not put a stumbling block before them? Will I not be held accountable for their pain?

ora_43

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 6:16 am

I don't think we should "correct" people if it means exposing confidential information. Our kids' struggles, marriage issues, etc, are private.

But sometimes it's possible to put things in perspective. Like, if someone compliments your parenting and you don't think you deserve it, you could say, "Thank you, it's so nice to hear you say that because to be honest it's something I struggle with."

And keep in mind that "correct" is a matter of perspective. Sometimes you might be being too hard on yourself; it could be (for example) the neighbor's impression of you as a good mom is more accurate than your own more critical take on it.

ora_43

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 6:18 am

amother wrote:

Not telling everyone everything you struggle with isn't dishonest. I think you're making wrong assumptions about what people with problems "should" look like.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 6:35 am

On the flipside, what if you tell everyone your most personal problems, and that just depresses them, and hurts them because they feel like they can't help or fix it for you? Take for example, having a neurotic mother with a heart condition, who worries about you constantly. Do you tell her that DH is a SA?

I understand what you mean by helping people by being more open. That's why I post in the Mental Health forum under my screen name, and why I'm always open to PMs if anyone needs to talk. That is MY choice, and I would never presume to tell others that they need to follow my example. I also don't live in a tight community, and I don't have a child in shidduchim. It goes back to respecting each individual's situation.

I do remember one time when people thought I was better than I am. I used to attend an MO shul. One extremely hot summer, everyone was wearing 3/4 sleeve shirts, except me. I always wear wrist length. A bunch of the ladies took it upon themselves to sit me down, and tell me that I didn't have to go around being so much frummer than them.

I rolled up my sleeves, and showed them my tattoos! I said "I'm not frummer than any of you. I got these years ago, and I don't choose to have them up for discussion all the time. I'd rather keep them to myself." Well, after that, they treated me more like one of their own. Wink

They weren't entitled to that information, and I didn't have to explain myself. I chose to share, because they were my friends, and it helped them understand me more.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 6:53 am

amother wrote:

FF your last paragraph is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Of course you weren't obligated. But look what you did by being open. See how you changed people's perceptions in such a positive way? See how all those people will likely be less judgmental now because of you.

Either that, or they are TOTALLY judging me behind my back, because now they all know that I have tattoos! It's OK, I can handle it - because I do not take responsibility for other people's judgments of me.

imasinger

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 7:22 am

FF said it beautifully.

Some people are more sensitive than others to their struggles being "out there", and some communities are more accepting than others. IMO, there is no chiyuv to give more information than necessary.

Sometimes, it's helpful to share. But we have to be ready, and we have to sense that the recipient will be ready to hear.

If either of those conditions are not met, one is wise to think through the consequences.

Signed,
Someone who has spent a lifetime fighting a tendency to overshare, and is pretty open on the board, but still has a few secrets, too.

PinkFridge

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 7:48 am

RDR wrote:

I always wondered about this. Anybody?

So you don't make a seudas hoda'a. Take on some chasadim to show your hakaras hatov. Or say Tehillim for one month if you don'tnormally. Give tzedaka.
Live in a way that makes Hashem misaheiv al yadcha. That to me is an excellent and fitting way to show your hakaras hatov.

tweek

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 8:45 am

There was a specific time that we were going through something quite difficult. Of course my husband and I were constantly talking about it, and my siblings were also a great support system.

Subconsciously, I made the decision not to talk about it at work. It wasn't always easy, especially since there are two friends at work who I am really close to and whose perspective on life I really admire.

There were so many times when we would talk about unimportant, day to day stuff that I wanted to just lay it all out and tell them what was really going on, but on the other hand, there was something nice about having work be a "free zone" for me where I could pretend that everything was great.

The main thing I learned from that experience is that you never really know what people are going through and to keep that in mind when interacting with anyone.

zaq

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 8:54 am

Personally I work pretty hard at trying to make people believe I'm better than I am, so if people think so, I'm delighted. The truth remains between the KBH and me.

There's a reason why we sew clothing with the seams and hems turned to the inside: because the world has no need to see all the messy details.

However I refuse to take credit ( or blame)for intentions I didn't have. So if someone remarks about my wearing long sleeves for religious reasons I will let them know that I wear long sleeves for sun protection. Otoh I don't preemptively announce the fact. As long as people say nothing to me, they can think whatever they want.

amother

Salmon

Mon, Jan 30 2017, 9:10 am

RDR wrote:

I always wondered about this. Anybody?

I think the key is not to overshare. If someone has preconceived notions about your life you're not obligated to correct them. I would probably answer in a mellow if they were truly off. Otherwise we can by makir tov by verbalizing to Hashem and to our children how much we have that we are grateful for and try to be careful not to overshare or draw attention in conversation with people. There are times that people say to me you're kids are amazing/you're amazing and I don't like those things as I try hard but I'm human and have ups and downs but I'm response is usually "I thank Hashem for the good days..." or just simply smile and nod. We all have our good days and bad days and we all have our strengths and weekends along with our individual blessings from Hashem. If I was significantly close to someone I would say something along those lines otherwise it's a lesson life teaches you eventually (hopefully).