Comparing our generation to previous ones

amother

Rose

Tue, Jan 31 2017, 8:43 pm

There were always challenges unique to each generation and it seems that it was the minority of people who withstood temptation. ex. only 1/5 of Jews left mitzrayim. Lots of Jews went to achashveiroshs party.
many became Christians or marranos during the inquisition. When Jews came to America at the turn of the century, many gave up yiddishkeit. there are many more examples but these just came to mind.
How do we make sure that we don't do the same thing? Most of us feel confident in our levels because we know so many others who are there too. This way of thinking didn't save the people in mitzrayim. they had plenty of friends behaving just like them and they all died. I want to be strong enough to stand up to our generations' challenges but it's hard to go against social norms. our gedolim tell us things, for example to get rid of the Internet and smart phones, but we don't listen. all our friends have it too so it can't be so bad, right? they don't mean us. they are being extreme. we rationalize it all. but are we going to go down in history as those who couldn't withstand our generations Nisayon? we can't understand how previous generations worked on shabbos. but are we better??
(I'm not a holy person. and not on a high level. I just wish I was and get nervous thinking a out this stuff)

sourstix

Tue, Jan 31 2017, 9:17 pm

If you want to better yourself there is plenty you can do. But don't start with the smartphone and internet ban. The rabbonim themselves have it. I know too much. I won't say how or what. But trust me I know.

If they have it why can't I? Tell me why they live a double standard life? Listen don't put in the rabbonim here. Those few rabbonim that walk the talk, are obviously few and far apart. But don't get this in the picture.

You really mean well and I admire you for that but you touched a raw nerve. Sorry.

cnc

Tue, Jan 31 2017, 9:30 pm

sourstix wrote:

If I want to better myself and feel that XYZ is wrong, it shouldn't make a difference to me that some people that are considered role models are doing XYZ. What others do shouldn't have an effect on me.

IF I feel that smartphones and Internet are affecting me negatively why shouldn't I start with that even if you assume the the rabbonim have it. (Side point, who are "the rabbanim"- I can tell you that the two people that I look up to as role models and ask my sheilos and eitzos to certainly don't have smartphones and Internet.)

ectomorph

Tue, Jan 31 2017, 10:01 pm

amother wrote:

it's true and you make me want to get rid of my smartphone!

I'm not on a high level and I really want my children and descendants to be a part of klal yisrael forever. I often worry about it. Maybe it's selfish. Out of my 8 great grandparents only my family is frum. Why should I expect any better statistics.

How can I make sure my family continues? Or at least leaves a positive impact on klal yisrael like Sara schenirer did.

Maybe I should be saying tehillim instead of posting here.

amother

Rose

Tue, Jan 31 2017, 10:53 pm

Flower Girl wrote:

Not sure how accurate these numbers are but from approximately 14.5 million Jews around the world only 2.2 million are orthodox. Although we should always be striving to become better people and ovdeh Hashem this should make you feel a bit better.

I should not feel better based on everyone else's level. It doesn't make me good if others are worse.

amother

Jade

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 12:22 am

sourstix wrote:

Huh? If some rabbonim u know have unfiltered smartphones that makes it perfectly OK even if deep down you know you'd be better off without it??
Not saying u specifically. Just continuing op's point. She's saying that in past generations, even the frumest and the holiest succumbed to the test of that generation.

Doesn't mean it was right.

And some rabbonim u happen to know who have smartphones doesn't change anything either.

Even if it makes u feel better to think it does.

amother

Jade

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 12:55 am

amother wrote:

I really thought the op was a more general question, not just about smartphones.

The general question would be a more interesting discussion IMNSVHO.

Signed

(this message was sent with my smartphone)

The question can be applied to many areas but is there anything else that's become so accepted by so many but would've been unheard of a generation ago?

amother

Green

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 1:34 am

amother wrote:

The question can be applied to many areas but is there anything else that's become so accepted by so many but would've been unheard of a generation ago?

I'm BT, so I'm coming from a different angle.

How about

Computers
TV
Long sheitals
Chalav stam
Women wearing pants
Yoatzot
Women reading megillah
Kids in public school because "we can't afford tuition"
Women learning gemara
Women wearing red
A whole lot of Lubavitch minhagim

Just a few that come to mind.

Maybe not all in the last one generation, but all fairly recently

cnc

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 7:52 am

amother wrote:

I used smartphones and Internet as an example because someone mentioned those things specifically- but my point stands with whatever you choose to substitute for the word smartphone.

zaq

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 8:13 am

ectomorph wrote:

How can I make sure my family continues? Or at least leaves a positive impact on klal yisrael like Sara schenirer did

1. There are no guarantees. Even gedolim have descendants otd, and every secular Israeli will tell you "my grandfather was a rabbi". The only thing you can do is be the best you can be and give your children a strong Jewish education. But be sincere and be a good person and don't look down on or make nasty comments about people who are less observant. Nothing turns a seeker or a child off so fast as hypocrisy and double standards.

2. It's nice to want to make a big impact and why not reach for the stars, but don't forget that the big shots aren't the whole story. It's all the plain poshut people going about their quiet lives just doing what they're supposed to do that make am yisrael what it is. If all you ever do is bring up your children to be good observant Jews, you're still a heroine, just not a famous one. Every child you bring up right, every act of chesed you do, every mitzvah you keep makes an impact.

PinkFridge

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 8:16 am

ectomorph wrote:

I really get you. I always say that I have the same goals as my grandparents born at the turn of the 20th century: I want kids who are shomer Shabbos with a bren for Yiddishkeit. Very basic.
We had some post Holocaust years of plenty, we got the great gift of access to E"Y, all these Divine kisses to let us know Hashem's here and taking care of us and allowed the Holocaust to happen for good reasons we can't fathom now. But we are facing challenges. We are living in a superficial world, an openly immodest world, and we have to deal with technology. Leave aside the frum stuff - you can read all sorts of secular books on the challenge of technology (Virtually You, The Big Disconnect) I think I'm older than you with my babies being older than yours. But I see the kids these days and I salute the parents. There is a lot of good parenting, a lot of genuine effort being made, and I think you'll all see peiros. Find mentors. Make thoughtful decisions, ones you can live with.
And when I said v'ha'arev na this morning and said the words "v'tze'etza'ai amcha beis Yisroel" you were included too.

PinkFridge

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 8:21 am

pizza4 wrote:

Are smartphones the nisayon of this generation?

No, but how we deal with technology just might be.
Many schools and kehillos have technology asifos and I've heard Rabbi Nechemiah Gottlieb of TAG speak. It's not that he wouldn't love to see everyone toe the frum line, but leaving that aside, his major message is what technology does to us. See the books I referenced in my immediate pp. I really like Virtually You by Dr. Elias Aboujaoude. (And I think I've called it Essentially You. Sorry for any inconvenience to anyone who tried to track it down.)

Rav Aharon Feldman, shlit"a, and others have said that the worst part of technology is that we've lost the ability to focus, which so greatly impacts real limud Torah. (And of course, other facets of life, again, discussed in numerous books about how we deal with technology.)