Comparing our generation to previous ones

zaq

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 5:33 am

ectomorph wrote:

. Out of my 8 great grandparents only my family is frum. Why should I expect any better statistics.

Because you're living in a different time and different circumstances. Your children are presumably going to religious schools, live in a heavily observant neighborhood, socialize with observant people, have parents who live a deeply observant life and don't have to choose between having food and keeping Shabbos.

Why shouldnt you expect better statistics? I say you absolutely should. But at the same time you have to understand that there are no guarantees. Each child is an individual and goes his own way. You do your best and leave the rest to the KBH.

PinkFridge

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 5:48 am

zaq wrote:

I agree that we have revach and options that our grandparents and greats didn't.
And yes, there are never guarantees. But we also have challenges that our ancestors didn't, and with yeridos hadoros, and the cushiness we've had over the last few years, as an aggregate, we may not have the convictions and resilience they did.

amother

Rose

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 5:54 am

zaq wrote:

.

I think you can compare. the point of my op was that even though we are not facing the same challenges as previous generations, don't feel too comfortable. we are tested with equally difficult tests, just different ones.

amother

Apricot

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 5:59 am

amother wrote:

I'm BT, so I'm coming from a different angle.

How about

Computers
TV
Long sheitals
Chalav stam
Women wearing pants
Yoatzot
Women reading megillah
Kids in public school because "we can't afford tuition"
Women learning gemara
Women wearing red
A whole lot of Lubavitch minhagim

Just a few that come to mind.

Maybe not all in the last one generation, but all fairly recently

I don't understand how Yoatzot fit into this list. Do you think it's negative???

Women wearing red - I'm sure my grandmothers wore red too. They also wore short sleeves and above the knee dresses.

Long sheitels - yes, this is true, and yet, I think our generation has more people covering hair than the past few.

pause

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 6:29 am

Part of the challenges of yesteryear, and of this generation as well, is the uncertainty of what our nisayon is and what's the right way to behave. If it would be so clear, we would know *this* is the thing we need to work on, it wouldn't be a nisayon. Think of all those who triumphed, starting from the days of Noach, they were always the "crazy" minority.

So while you think we should be wearing shorter sheitels, someone else thinks we need to dispose of smartphones, and in this "irbuvia" of galus, we don't know who is right and which path will lead us to the geulah.

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 6:49 am

amother wrote:

I'm not sure what your point is, but IMO most of these are changes for the better.

treestump

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 6:54 am

Chayalle wrote:

They make everything more accessible. It's a materialistic generation that needs the world at their fingertips.

I guess materialistic people can have things more easily now, but most people I know who have smartphones are not materialistic and use it for information, data, directions, etc... In fact, most of the materialistic people I know live in very insular communities and don't have smartphones. I guess our perceptions are formed based on how we see it being used...

Chayalle

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 7:52 am

treestump wrote:

I agree, that's why I see smartphones as only one aspect of materialism (which can be used for good things or not) and not as the root - rather as an offshoot.

Adults might be using smartphones for information, data, directions....but I see alot of teens and young adults who have smartphones purely for socializing, shopping, etc....it's just another gadget in a generation of people who need alot of things to get by, that previous generations didn't dream of.

zaq

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 8:00 am

Like it or not, technology is here to stay. Our challenge is not technology per se but the same challenge every generation has had from the discovery of fire forward: how do we use what we have for the greater good while avoiding its pitfalls?

There were surely heated debates over the damage that was done by committing the Oral Law to writing. There were vigorous objections to translating the Talmud into English and even into Hebrew. There was energetic opposition to Artscroll's translation of commentaries. All were seen by at least some as not only weakening the intellect but also dangerously diluting commitment to Torah Judaism. And for all we know, the printing press and the telephone may have sparked the same fears that the Internet and smartphones spark today.

amother

Mistyrose

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 8:37 am

Chayalle wrote:

Of course.

In my grandparents' generation, few people had cars. When I was a kid, some people had a car, and later, most people had a car. Take a survey today of people who have only one car....

This isn't really a reflection on changing values so much as a result of policy decisions made over the last several decades that affected municipal planning, public transportation, and car ownership. 99% of America is built to be heavily reliant on cars for various complicated reasons. That so many families have 2 cars today is not because we're a spoiled generation but because in most parts of the country it is a NEED.

gp2.0

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 9:02 am

amother wrote:

There were always challenges unique to each generation and it seems that it was the minority of people who withstood temptation. ex. only 1/5 of Jews left mitzrayim. Lots of Jews went to achashveiroshs party.
many became Christians or marranos during the inquisition. When Jews came to America at the turn of the century, many gave up yiddishkeit. there are many more examples but these just came to mind.
How do we make sure that we don't do the same thing? Most of us feel confident in our levels because we know so many others who are there too. This way of thinking didn't save the people in mitzrayim. they had plenty of friends behaving just like them and they all died. I want to be strong enough to stand up to our generations' challenges but it's hard to go against social norms. our gedolim tell us things, for example to get rid of the Internet and smart phones, but we don't listen. all our friends have it too so it can't be so bad, right? they don't mean us. they are being extreme. we rationalize it all. but are we going to go down in history as those who couldn't withstand our generations Nisayon? we can't understand how previous generations worked on shabbos. but are we better??
(I'm not a holy person. and not on a high level. I just wish I was and get nervous thinking a out this stuff)

Comparing yourself to others is a useless exercise. No two people will ever be exactly the same. No two people have the same challenges, hardships, privileges, personalities and tafkid.

Your job is to look only at yourself and assess yourself. Take a look at your challenges, your personality, your hardships, your privileges and be the best person you can be. That is your tafkid.

PinkFridge

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 10:52 am

treestump wrote:

I would use a linking word between materialism and technology and that is, superficiality.

PinkFridge

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 10:54 am

SixOfWands wrote:

This is nothing new. Plenty of kids Orthodox kids attended public schools in the 50s and 60s for this exact reason.

Sure. I know people my parents' age - 80s, which means the 1940s - and there were after public school programs that weren't as comprehensive as a day school but offered quite a lot. There was community support, there was a lot they got from the home.

Roots

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 11:12 am

interesting disscussion I must say

fisrlty OP, the way to stay on the right track IMHO is that every rosh hashana you look at where you were last year and try to build up on that. many of us stay the SAME way we are every year becasue we look at all our frineds around us and then at oursleves and we decide that we are ok, decent human beings we do mitzvos we cover our hair, we dress btznius we keep shabbos etc we base all that on whats going on with our feinds family neighbors etc
but if you really want to grow you look at you last year and the you this yewar should compare yourself from the you last year and go up from there, get what im trying to say.

also

Quote:

So while you think we should be wearing shorter sheitels, someone else thinks we need to dispose of smartphones, and in this "irbuvia" of galus, we don't know who is right and which path will lead us to the geulah.

the problem of the long shaitels are not the women who never used to cover their hair and now they are, kol hakavod to them
its the legitimacy that other women, that were tzanua and covered their hair to begin with, 'got' from them and now they allow themselves to wear longer wigs

its becoming normal for bais yaakov girls who just got married to get pretty long wigs- something that sholdnt be then norm..