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Forum -> Parenting our children
11 y.o. DD refuses to wear sheer tights for pesach/summer
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amother
Khaki


 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 7:33 pm
Lose the battle win the war....
Even if it's for tznius reasons she's not yet mechayav
Since it's important to u I would have a little chat n tell her how I feel, chances r she'll come around eventually
U should have lotsa nachas from her
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amother
Indigo


 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 7:34 pm
If it's any consolation to you my daughter at age 8 , yup 2nd grad. refused to wear nice knee socks shobbas and only wanted to wear nude tights
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 7:38 pm
Op here, bh, no other issue at all with her. Plain and simple, it's a matter of comfort for her, and apparently, she couldn't care less of what others think of her:)
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amother
Beige


 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 7:40 pm
I have a 12 year old and last summer her friends wore nude, she refused and wore short socks. This summer she's 12 and the colony rules are even that 12 and up wear socks or tights, no bare legs... we recently went to Miami and she was refusing to wear knee socks or tights. I tried to explain to her you're 12..... in the end she wore leggings with short socks- and u saw her leg plenty between the leggings and socks it looked ridiculous, but I just let her do what she felt comfortable doing. Even though it was embarrassing. I don't know if it's wrong or right and what Halacha is, but this age I'm seeing there is so much she's fighting against that I'm worried she will resent tZnius all together. Which I already see she's doing... we are a bais Yakov Type of family .
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 7:44 pm
It's so ridiculous - the nude stockings, the kids are getting younger and younger wearing them. OP, I would just continue doing what you did till now - match the socks to her outfits and let her be comfortable. IIRC white socks are out (anyone remember the white Italian socks we used to wear on Shabbos) but you can buy grey, beige, sparkly, etc...There definitely were 11 year olds in my Lakewood neighborhood wearing knee socks last summer on Shabbos.

My 8 year old is very sensory, and I have a feeling she's going to be exactly like this in a few years. I have no plans of turning this into a battle. I'll just wait till she's ready.
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 7:46 pm
amother wrote:
No, I wouldn't care. No, she won't be the only one. She will be joined by my dd because neither of us has good tastes or would know a style if it hit us in the face. And, I don't think I'm the only one.


This.

And if the girls wear socks during the week, I'm not sure I understand your question about whether it's a tznius issue.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 7:50 pm
Op here, on shabbos, even those that wear short socks (most kids her age are in knee socks)or knee socks during the week wear those dumb nude tights on shabbos, because I guess that's what everyone does!
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 7:54 pm
amother wrote:
Op here, on shabbos, even those that wear short socks (most kids her age are in knee socks)or knee socks during the week wear those dumb nude tights on shabbos, because I guess that's what everyone does!

If you want her to wear the nude pantyhose, I suggest you come up with some sort of compromise. She can wear what she wants when she's with her friends but if you're taking her to a simcha or something, she'll wear what you prefer. But make it workable. If she needs silkier pantyhose, work with her to find the most comfortable pair. And if she wants knee high pantyhose, try to get those.
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bsy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 8:13 pm
When I was in the "in between" stage, I only got dark skirts so I could wear navy or black socks instead of (nerdy for my age) white socks.
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amother
Vermilion


 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 8:19 pm
No! Sorry - stop making her wear what you want. Let her wear what she wants so long as it conforms to SOME halachic standard. Even if not yours.

Let me explain what it means to be sensory. Imagine that you were required to have stinging ants crawl all over your legs and crotch ALL day. Would you do it? How would you feel if your mother made you do it?

That is what pantyhose feel like to me.

And forget about what everyone else is doing. It's irrelevant.
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notshanarishona




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 9:22 pm
If your family minhag is that the whole leg has to be covered then give her a choice to wear knee socks vs tights. Short socks depends on what the school allows but it's not against halacha.
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amother
Pewter


 

Post Wed, Feb 01 2017, 9:26 pm
amother wrote:
No, I wouldn't care. No, she won't be the only one. She will be joined by my dd because neither of us has good tastes or would know a style if it hit us in the face. And, I don't think I'm the only one.


Same here. Although my 10 yr old dd does have some sense of style, but I certainly don't. That being the case, you can take anything I say about this with a grain of salt.

My dd does not like sheer tights either but also would not want to go with short socks (not because of me. She us used to this and it's what her friends do). In the summer she wears the same microfiber tights she wears in the winter, with the color depending on her oufit - black, navy or white. I know this is so not the "correct" fashion, but so long as she's happy I really don't care. I wonder if this summer she will decide white tights are nerdy and want sheer.

Btw, before people jump all over this - my daughter is B"H very popular and well-liked by her friends and totally fits in. I do get her fashionable items (such as a pom pom hat, which I would never wear myself) if she asks for them and they aren't too expensive.

ETA: Whenever she does decide she wants sheer pantyhose I will gladly buy them for her (at least as gladly as I can buy something that I know will probably rip the first time she wears them), even though I personally think it's a little ridiculous on a girl her age. But I would never tell her as a preteen that she should wear them if she didn't want to, because "that's what everyone does." If someone would ask me why she's wearing black tights in the summer instead of sheer pantyhose, I would just say "because that's what she's comfortable in, and I'm sure at some point she'll decide she prefers sheer."
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 02 2017, 1:48 am
My rule is,"make sure the important parts are covered." Everything else is negotiable.

DD is an extremely sensory kid, and tights make her absolutely miserable. She wears leggings under her skirts, with short socks. I buy her leggings in the adult department, so they are long enough to go down to her ankles. She's actually getting to the size where she's borrowing all of mine!

Cotton leggings are heavier, but still cooler in the summer, because they absorb sweat, and they breathe. They're much healthier than tights because of that. DD also hates having anything on her feet, so she can take off her socks and shoes, and her legs are still completely covered.

The one time her school insisted on tights for a performance, I cut the toes off so that she could wear them like leggings, and she wore matching socks and shoes. I noticed a few other girls had done the same thing. Nobody seemed to care.

If you have a really active girl who likes to run and play, or sit awkwardly, leggings are much more modest than sheer stockings, any day. A huge bonus, is that they last for at least a year, or until they are outgrown!
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amother
Pewter


 

Post Thu, Feb 02 2017, 2:10 am
Question for OP: Is your issue with her refusal to wear sheer pantyhose a tzniyus issue or an issue of wanting her to fit in to the fashion that's being worn?

Question for everyone: Am I the only one who thinks that cotton knee highs look too casual for Shabbos? To me, cotton knee highs, even the decorated ones, are casual and look funny with a Shabbos outfit. Opaque tights seem much more normal to me with a Shabbos outfit. (Though I have already posted about my lack of fashion sense.)
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 02 2017, 5:44 am
I also dislike those sheer tights. I only wear them when I really need to. It's not acceptable to have bare legs in my community so I either wear thick comfortable tights, or socks with a long skirt. Thick tights on shabbos only work with certain types of shoes.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 02 2017, 5:58 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
Force her to wear pantyhose on a hot sweaty day at 11...

At 18, she will have nose piercings and possibly a non-Jewish bf..


Seen it many timers unfortunately.... Crying Crying


What the hell????

OP, get her comfortable tights or knee highs or knee socks etc, don't turn it into a battle as long as she's tznius. But DN'Tstart c'v seeing her as on a terrible road...
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amother
Vermilion


 

Post Thu, Feb 02 2017, 6:47 am
Ruchel u actually agree with naturalmon5. Naturalnom5 did not say bare legs are the start of a slippery slope. She said for a Mom to MAKE A BIG DEAL over bare legs could be the start of a slippery slope.

Big big difference.

So I think your "what the h#ll" comment is uncalled for.
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Culturedpearls




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 02 2017, 6:53 am
For me this would be a tznius issue.
My girls till age 12 wear soft pima cotton tights. When my daughter turned 12 I noticed that girls her age wear sheer or skin colour tights. Since I only wear over 40 denier I asked my daughter if she wants 40 denier skin coloured tights. We went through a few whose colour & comfort she liked.
Outside of school I let the girls wear long socks & skin/sheer knee highs with maxi skirts.
At every stage I give them choices (that I'm happy with) and let them choose.
I personally hate tights & wear knee highs with longer skirts.
It does not need to be a fight. Insisting on tznius doesn't mean your child will be mechalel shabbos.
Granted, I don't insist I expect. I spend a lot of time & money to ensure my daughter wears what she thinks is beautiful & tznius. However, kids need rules & boundaries just like all people do. You don't need to love every mitzva you just do it & while I make sure there's no struggle (the school & peer pressure help) I would also not allow a breach of tznius.
For the record my daughters wear tights from 3 years old.
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amother
Vermilion


 

Post Thu, Feb 02 2017, 6:58 am
I am glad culturedpearls that none of your girls have sensory issues.

Had I been forced to wear tights (from age 3????) you would have had a lot of unnecessary issues from me.
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shevi82




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 02 2017, 7:01 am
If a child is loved and gets his needs he will not be Mechalel Shabbos because of his Family Tznius standards.
If he is forced/put down feels unloved he/she might. No parent should feel helpless in front of their child , because he will cause him to go off the derech.
Besides, I believe the op was talking fashion wise, not tznius related.
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